O's Minor Leaguers: "The worst body language of anyone in baseball"?

[flashjordnk]

Don't let flashjordnk see this..he won't believe it!

First off, this is classic Ken Rosenthal. Hating on the Orioles. Did he really have to propose this article this way?

The trade of Miguel Tejada, the team’s most frequent No. 2 hitter, forced Samuel to rearrange his batting order[snip]...Showalter stuck with the new look

Anyone who actually likes the Orioles knows about how much fans and baseball enthusiasts were clamoring against Tejada in the two spot because he never took any pitches. I'm not sure Showalter wasn't the impetus behind Tejada getting traded. And thus it was not Samuel who rearranged anything it was rearranged for him.

He also didn't even need to bring up the fear thing. It falls into his vendetta against Baltimore IMO. The meat and potatoes of this article is all about why the O's are resurgent. What did the "NL Veteran" he referenced think Ken was going to answer? Also...what does any NL Veteran of any relevancy actually care about the O's resurgence. Seriously worry about your league and not having a DH. NL Veteran if you're reading this, please don't worry about the O's, worry about your own league.

This really gets me though

Some of the Orioles’ success under Showalter is attributable to plain old luck. ... That’s quite impressive — and quite unsustainable.

In any case, it’s embarrassing that a major-league club would respond only to a manager who exercised greater authority and held the players more accountable. Then again, if any club needed such a kick in the rear, it was the Orioles.

So he says it's luck and it's unsustainable. But then goes on to say that it's embarrassing they responded to this. Wait a second Ken...are they responding to Buck or are they just lucky. Or is it as you mentioned earlier addition by subtraction with Tejada. Or maybe the improved pitching from your veterans that you also reference earlier?

Quickly Rosenthal moves to cover his bases. No wait the Orioles have terrible body language. Through the minors. Quick now let me attribute that to 'rival scout'. Now it has legitimacy. Please...Rosenthal this is not only poorly written, but it's a shade illogical.

Finally Rosenthal doesn't actually show how Buck has exerted any of this 'authority' on players. What did he say to one guy the other night, go do what you need to do. He didn't even tell him to sacrifice bunt? Does Rosenthal even follow or watch O's games anymore? These guys look looser and more free than they have in a while. They look like they are enjoying the game, did you see Pie circle the field after he made that catch in the 11th last night? For all the young guys on our roster I really am not seeing any extra 'malaise' from the young players the O's have on board right now.

Secondly, I was at an Ironbirds game the other night. The atmosphere was not negative body language. What does that mean? In comparison to others? I've been to other minor league games and never seen or heard that. And from the snippets of video we've seen here I don't see it either.

We haven't heard this from OH staff who attend a lot of games. Tony just verified that his post.

Thirdly, Sports Guy...grow up. Get some info to back up your statements. And stop trying to pick fights with people. It's not only immature, but it's unnecessary. Honestly, you're a smart baseball guy. You get peripherals and you get the sport. Don't let your mouth get away with confusing what you really bring to these boards in terms of smart, analytical comments.

[NewMarketSean]

Palmer right after ST: "If any one of those guys worked hard, they'd stick out like a sore thumb".

So I don't think it's crazy to say the OP quote is accurate.

[mcgraw238]

I can only think of one player who would fit that description for bad body language and it's true, it's pretty bad, but I would disagree that it's throughout the whole system.

I personally think additions like John Stockstill, Denny Hocking, and Mike Bordick have improved things this season.

Coaches and managers like Brad Komminsk, Gary Kendell, and Mike Griffin are just a few of the guy thought of highly in and out of the organization.

There are quality instructors and coaches in the Orioles system and I haven't noticed any horrible "lack of confidence or malaise" from the vast majority of the players.

Thanks for chiming in on this topic with your observations Tony. Hopefully, this thread doesn't turn into one of those "all or nothing" spats. It clear that Dave Stockstill's approach was less than ideal; But, there does seem to be improvement under the leadership of John Stockstill and some of the guys that you mention. Hopefully, we see continued improvement in the system under the current leadership. Many of the players in the system have made a strong push to up thier status as this season has played out. Adams, Henson, Hoes, Mahoney, Avery, and Britton come to mind. I'm not sure the "body language" label would apply to these kids.

[bandy75]

Worst body language? Really? If that's what he has to write about, then he needs to dig deeper for material. What's next? sore losers? maybe they don't take good care of their equipment, perhaps they don't use proper grammar in interviews! That just seem kind of silly(to put it mildly!) for anyone to say.

[stef]

Palmer right after ST: "If any one of those guys worked hard, they'd stick out like a sore thumb".

So I don't think it's crazy to say the OP quote is accurate.

Just for accuracy: Palmer didn't say that, he was told that by someone (coach or scout, I can't remember) and reported it.

[justD]

Regarding the "body language" of the minor leaguers:

I have heard ~~ more than once ~~ a sense of frustration, and then almost resignation, regarding the lack of communication in the minor league system, where guys feel like they have no idea how they're doing, what might be going on with them, any explanation whatsoever when a move is made involving them.

When Showalter took over, one of the best things I heard was that no one was going to wonder anymore. He was going to tell them, even if they weren't going to like what they heard him say, so that they'd always know where they stood. Was he talking about the same things I've heard from minor leaguers?

I can't say for sure, but if so, I hope he can get that new approach to take hold throughout the farm system as well. Because at this point, attaching that sense of uncertainty to the body language I've always seen does fit. I believe I have seen it.

[PBR Street Gang]

Was does that even mean?

Isn't that the quote from the commercial when the guy tells the kid "Egg management fee"?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QgdTymCZowU&feature=related

[Sports Guy]

I'm not in on this joke here. Do you believe this? I have a hard time taking what one scout has to say as gospel.

How could you not believe it?

I have no doubt this is true.

[allstar1579]

I know you can't name the player, but can you name the team he is on so I can stop freaking out that it might be Nolan Reimold...

It's not AAA.

[Sports Guy]

First off, this is classic Ken Rosenthal. Hating on the Orioles. Did he really have to propose this article this way?

Anyone who actually likes the Orioles knows about how much fans and baseball enthusiasts were clamoring against Tejada in the two spot because he never took any pitches. I'm not sure Showalter wasn't the impetus behind Tejada getting traded. And thus it was not Samuel who rearranged anything it was rearranged for him.

He also didn't even need to bring up the fear thing. It falls into his vendetta against Baltimore IMO. The meat and potatoes of this article is all about why the O's are resurgent. What did the "NL Veteran" he referenced think Ken was going to answer? Also...what does any NL Veteran of any relevancy actually care about the O's resurgence. Seriously worry about your league and not having a DH. NL Veteran if you're reading this, please don't worry about the O's, worry about your own league.

This really gets me though

So he says it's luck and it's unsustainable. But then goes on to say that it's embarrassing they responded to this. Wait a second Ken...are they responding to Buck or are they just lucky. Or is it as you mentioned earlier addition by subtraction with Tejada. Or maybe the improved pitching from your veterans that you also reference earlier?

Quickly Rosenthal moves to cover his bases. No wait the Orioles have terrible body language. Through the minors. Quick now let me attribute that to 'rival scout'. Now it has legitimacy. Please...Rosenthal this is not only poorly written, but it's a shade illogical.

Finally Rosenthal doesn't actually show how Buck has exerted any of this 'authority' on players. What did he say to one guy the other night, go do what you need to do. He didn't even tell him to sacrifice bunt? Does Rosenthal even follow or watch O's games anymore? These guys look looser and more free than they have in a while. They look like they are enjoying the game, did you see Pie circle the field after he made that catch in the 11th last night? For all the young guys on our roster I really am not seeing any extra 'malaise' from the young players the O's have on board right now.

Secondly, I was at an Ironbirds game the other night. The atmosphere was not negative body language. What does that mean? In comparison to others? I've been to other minor league games and never seen or heard that. And from the snippets of video we've seen here I don't see it either.

We haven't heard this from OH staff who attend a lot of games. Tony just verified that his post.

Thirdly, Sports Guy...grow up. Get some info to back up your statements. And stop trying to pick fights with people. It's not only immature, but it's unnecessary. Honestly, you're a smart baseball guy. You get peripherals and you get the sport. Don't let your mouth get away with confusing what you really bring to these boards in terms of smart, analytical comments.

1) Try reading...I didn't post the article.

2) Quit crying, I was kidding.

[mweb]

How could you not believe it?I have no doubt this is true.

If you trust Tony and/or don't put all your stock in one quote from one scout.

So the answer is pretty easily unless it's something you want to believe.

Now it's possible that what he says is true, but I'm not going to take it as gospel either.

[Sports Guy]

If you trust Tony and/or don't put all your stock in one quote from one scout.

So the answer is pretty easily unless it's something you want to believe.

Now it's possible that what he says is true, but I'm not going to take it as gospel either.

Its not that i don't trust Tony...I posted that response before I read Tony's post.

However, Tony can't be everywhere and maybe he has missed some things...Of course, the same thing could be said for this scout, so who knows.

But, we have heard similar things to this in the past and the organization certainly has its issues up and down, so I see no reason to just write this off.

Now, I would like to know more about it...Was this a scout that sees the Orioles MiL teams often? Did he also get this from other scouts and was just relaying what he has seen and been told?

Obviously we don't know that but I certainly believe there is at least some truth to it.

I do admit that Tony's comments make me feel a little better about it.

[mweb]

Its not that i don't trust Tony...I posted that response before I read Tony's post.

However, Tony can't be everywhere and maybe he has missed some things...Of course, the same thing could be said for this scout, so who knows.

But, we have heard similar things to this in the past and the organization certainly has its issues up and down, so I see no reason to just write this off.

Now, I would like to know more about it...Was this a scout that sees the Orioles MiL teams often? Did he also get this from other scouts and was just relaying what he has seen and been told?

Obviously we don't know that but I certainly believe there is at least some truth to it.

I do admit that Tony's comments make me feel a little better about it.

Fair enough. I agree there is no reason to just write it off, but that's a lot different from there being no reason not to believe it. Even without Tony's remarks, there are reasons.

[Tony-OH]

Thanks for chiming in on this topic with your observations Tony. Hopefully, this thread doesn't turn into one of those "all or nothing" spats. It clear that Dave Stockstill's approach was less than ideal; But, there does seem to be improvement under the leadership of John Stockstill and some of the guys that you mention. Hopefully, we see continued improvement in the system under the current leadership. Many of the players in the system have made a strong push to up thier status as this season has played out. Adams, Henson, Hoes, Mahoney, Avery, and Britton come to mind. I'm not sure the "body language" label would apply to these kids.

Unfortunately, you would be wrong. One of these guys has some of the worse body language around.

I've talked to a few guys in the system and they all seem to think communication within the system has improved with John Stockstill taking over. Is it ideal? Probably not, but its improved.

[QBsILLEST1]

Unfortunately, you would be wrong. One of these guys has some of the worse body language around.

I've talked to a few guys in the system and they all seem to think communication within the system has improved with John Stockstill taking over.

I am guessing Adams........