Buehrle accuses Pie of stealing signs

[Nigel Tufnel]

Use better signs.

Yeah, either their signs are way too simple, or all of us who complain about Felix's low baseball IQ owe him an apology.

[Amerks]

I can't figure out all the negativity thrown at him. DT certainly seemed to have some issues with him. Pie always seems to be very enthusiastic. I recall a few walkoff wins in the past, when he was not playing...he seemed like the happiest player off the bench celebrating...Stealing signs, any edge you can get IMO..it's not like he is in the stands with binoculars AND if a pitcher feels someone is stealing the signs, it doesn't take a brain surgeon to rectify the situation.

[blid]

Stealing signs is super cool

[scOtt]

You mean Pierzynski:laughlol:

Lex said "player". That rules out Pierzynski.

[osfan83]

I've always been of the opinion that the only signs that aren't cool to steal is the catcher's signs to the pitcher when you are in the batters box. And that also goes for looking back to get location from the catcher's glove just before the pitch.

Stealing the signs from the bases and relaying them or stealing the signs from the manager or 3B coach are completely kosher in my book. If the other team is too stupid to come up with a system that can't be easily broken, that's their own fault.

Why? I don't understand why stealing the catchers sign or sneaking a peak at where the catcher is setting up is taboo? Why is that any more unscrupoulus than the catcher secreatly communicating with the pitcher and not letting the hitter know where the pitch will be thrown. Either make the catcher and pitcher yell to each other location and type of pitch, or allow the hitter to try and figure out what is coming and where.

[DrungoHazewood]

Teams tend to get angry when they're used to you rolling over and playing dead and now don't.

[Pedro Cerrano]

Wouldn't want Buehrle mad at you. I'd imagine an 85-MPH fastball hurts when you get beaned with it.

[Sanfran327]

Wouldn't want Buehrle mad at you. I'd imagine an 85-MPH fastball hurts when you get beaned with it.

Not really.

[El Gordo]

Wouldn't want Buehrle mad at you. I'd imagine an 85-MPH fastball hurts when you get beaned with it.

Well he'd better watch out. Felix' best friend is Luke Scott, who chops down trees for fun, hits HR's almost at will, and carry's a gun.:laughlol:

[maudibjr]

I've always been of the opinion that the only signs that aren't cool to steal is the catcher's signs to the pitcher when you are in the batters box. And that also goes for looking back to get location from the catcher's glove just before the pitch.

Stealing the signs from the bases and relaying them or stealing the signs from the manager or 3B coach are completely kosher in my book. If the other team is too stupid to come up with a system that can't be easily broken, that's their own fault.

This is exactly how I have always understood this particular 'unwritten rule'. A batter glancing at the catcher will almost always get a way inside pitch.

[SammyBirdland]

Teams tend to get angry when they're used to you rolling over and playing dead and now don't.

Bingo. Those days are over (hopefully).

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[Mackus]

Why? I don't understand why stealing the catchers sign or sneaking a peak at where the catcher is setting up is taboo? Why is that any more unscrupoulus than the catcher secreatly communicating with the pitcher and not letting the hitter know where the pitch will be thrown. Either make the catcher and pitcher yell to each other location and type of pitch, or allow the hitter to try and figure out what is coming and where.

Stealing location based on the catcher's glove is just a crappy thing to do. That is cheating, IMO. The catcher has to be back there, its not like they can choose to play without a catcher and just pelt the umpire with pitches for strikes. If it was routine for pitchers and catchers to use the more complicated signs they use when a runner is on 2nd, then it'd be a bit different with stealing the actual signs, but since its not, I also think a batter looking down at a catcher's fingers is as bad as looking back at where the glove is before the pitch comes in.

Stealing the "encrypted" signs from a 3B coach or manager is gamesmanship since it involves trying to decipher what sign is actually being sent, and not just looking and realizing right away. A runner on 2nd stealing the catcher's signs, which are also hidden, and discretely relaying them to the hitter, is also gamesmanship, since it's both got the deciphering aspect and then additionally the aspect of signaling the hitter when the runner is in plain view of everybody.

If the stealing of the signs involves breaking the other team's code, I'm fine with it and actually think its pretty awesome. If all it involves is looking back and seeing where the catcher is set up or how many fingers he has down in an obvious situation, that's bush league and deserving of a fastball to the temple.

[osfan83]

Stealing location based on the catcher's glove is just a crappy thing to do. That is cheating, IMO. The catcher has to be back there, its not like they can choose to play without a catcher and just pelt the umpire with pitches for strikes. If it was routine for pitchers and catchers to use the more complicated signs they use when a runner is on 2nd, then it'd be a bit different with stealing the actual signs, but since its not, I also think a batter looking down at a catcher's fingers is as bad as looking back at where the glove is before the pitch comes in.

Stealing the "encrypted" signs from a 3B coach or manager is gamesmanship since it involves trying to decipher what sign is actually being sent, and not just looking and realizing right away. A runner on 2nd stealing the catcher's signs, which are also hidden, and discretely relaying them to the hitter, is also gamesmanship, since it's both got the deciphering aspect and then additionally the aspect of signaling the hitter when the runner is in plain view of everybody.

If the stealing of the signs involves breaking the other team's code, I'm fine with it and actually think its pretty awesome. If all it involves is looking back and seeing where the catcher is set up or how many fingers he has down in an obvious situation, that's bush league and deserving of a fastball to the temple.

A. I don't have a problem with the pitcher throwing high and tight to send a message, even if that message is "don't look back for location".

B. Is it bad form for the runner on second to take a peek back at the SS to see if he is heading back to the bag for a pickoff attempt? Is it bad form for the runner of first to take note of where the outfielders are playing so he knows if he has a chance to go first to third on a hit?

I think it's smart if the batter can gain an edge by getting an idea of where the location might be...I also think it's smart for the pitcher to send a message that he doesn't like it. If the league doesn't want the batter to look back, then make it a rule, like a pitchers balk, and give the ump the power to hang and extra strike on a batter he catches looking back for location.

[NewMarketSean]

Unwritten rules are unwritten rules, meaning there is no recourse for not following them unless the other team wants to throw at you, at which point you get a free base if you are hit. Felix Pie did nothing wrong. As a matter of fact, it is nice to see our players actually do what they can to get the upper hand after years and years of going through the motions in losing seasons.

[ScottP]

Easiest way for the Sox to solve this problem is to keep Pie off the bases, but they don't seem to be able to do that.