Buehrle accuses Pie of stealing signs

[Nigel Tufnel]

This may seem contradictory, but I think it's OK for a runner on second to tip off the batter for the type of pitch, but not for pitch location. The theory is that the catcher should be trying to hide the pitch type, but there's nothing he can do to disguise where he sets up.

EDIT: Also, what are people's thoughts about looking at what play your opponent calls in football video games?

[bobmc]

And on another note: He Gone!!

Yeah hopefully Hawk will weigh in on this weighty issue tonight. Hawk, btw, said that Nick is an excellent defensive OF, FWIW (wow - where is Shack lately - released or on sabbatical?).

[Mackus]

Well, put me down as having no problem with the batter sneaking a peek for location if he can get away with it. Also I'm cool with the SS decoying a runner from first on a hit to right field, or the catcher blocking the plate, or the runner plowing into the catcher trying to dislodge the ball. If the rule books don't prohibit it, then it's fair game.

There is nothing wrong with any of the other things you mention. Looking back at the catcher to see his fingers or his location is complete crap bush league, though.

Everything else you mentioned, and stealing signs from a coach or manager or the catcher from 2B, is a part of gamesmanship and trying to confuse the other team. Stealing the catcher's location isn't part of that, because there is really no way to disguise it, unless the catcher doesn't shift into position and put his glove up until the pitcher is in the downward motion of his release, which obviously isn't practical. I'm not talking about if the catcher is holding his glove up well before the guy is into the windup.

[byrdz]

BTW, haven't they already done enough damage by knocking Jones out of the series, I'd say we owe them not the other way around!!

[AgentOrange]

There is nothing wrong with any of the other things you mention. Looking back at the catcher to see his fingers or his location is complete crap bush league, though.

Everything else you mentioned, and stealing signs from a coach or manager or the catcher from 2B, is a part of gamesmanship and trying to confuse the other team. Stealing the catcher's location isn't part of that, because there is really no way to disguise it, unless the catcher doesn't shift into position and put his glove up until the pitcher is in the downward motion of his release, which obviously isn't practical. I'm not talking about if the catcher is holding his glove up well before the guy is into the windup.

I feel you get every advantage you can. If it means giving location, thats what it means.

Giving away location is even risky for the hitters. If the pitcher misses badly on location, it actually hurt the batter.

[The Wedge]

Look, there's a reason signs are there in the first place. If you can't keep your signs secretive enough that a guy has figured them out, that's YOUR FAULT. Change them up. There's no real rules about it, and this is professional and competitive, so any edge is a good edge. Don't jaw at the opposing player because you got figured out. Work to fix the reason why you got figured out. This isn't someone using binoculars from the bullpen here.

[BRob51]

Man, I love this. I stole signs from the dugout the last two years for my highschool team. I'd like to take credit for 4 or 5 basehits and a couple of RBIs. It's one of the most satisfying feelings in the world to successfully know each pitch and pickoff before it happens. I hope there's some beanball tonight, I wanna see Arrieta step up and protect our players. And I want to see Luke Scott single-handedly destroy the entire CWS 40-man roster.

[Miller192]

As a pitcher, there's no difference between a guy trying to steal location versus the pitch. Stealing the spot as we called it, is archaic anyway. It's stealing either way and you do your best to avoid it because they are going to try it.

Once we had an idea signs were being stolen, it usually gave us an opportunity to get away with a few pitches by mixing the signs.

We had a older player on my indy ball league who was in the league for a while. He had a few opposing catchers who would tip him off as to what was coming. They would throw dirt on his spikes when a fastball was coming.

[JTrea81]

I wonder if this is something Buck teaches his players to do and could be part of his success. It could be one of those things that he does that Trembley or Samuel didn't for example.

Trembley might have thought that it wasn't right to do something like that for instance...

I agree that there's nothing wrong with it. You should take any kind of weakness by your opponent and exploit it to win the game.

[Miller192]

I wonder if this is something Buck teaches his players to do and could be part of his success. It could be one of those things that he knows to look for that Trembley or Samuel didn't for example.

I agree that there's nothing wrong with it.

I'd be willing to bet you that most of the Orioles hitters don't want someone to try and relay signs. They either won't trust that they will get it right, or they would rather not know.

[JTrea81]

I'd be willing to bet you that most of the Orioles hitters don't want someone to try and relay signs. They either won't trust that they will get it right, or they would rather not know.

Why would they rather not know? I think any hitter would want that advantage over his opponent if they can get it.

It's just like when a pitcher is tipping their pitches. The guy who sees the tell, will let the other hitters in the dugout know what to look for.

[BRob51]

I'd be willing to bet you that most of the Orioles hitters don't want someone to try and relay signs. They either won't trust that they will get it right, or they would rather not know.

Yeah, some people like having the signs, and some people get overanxious when they know what's coming. Guys get out in front of fastballs and wait too long of offspeed. Only 2 or 3 guys on my team wanted signs.

[AgentOrange]

Why would they rather not know? I think any hitter would want that advantage over his opponent if they can get it.

It's just like when a pitcher is tipping their pitches. The guy who sees the tell, will let the other hitters in the dugout know what to look for.

Because they may be wrong, which would be even worse than not knowing.

A pitcher tipping his pitches is totally different.

[Hooded Viper]

Buehrle is such a little B*t#@. This is the same guy who spouted off that the O's are a team the White Sox should beat all of the time. Yet since Buck took over we are 4-1 against them and he is 0-2 personally. He needs to STFU and get Pie out, as Scott said earlier in the thread. What a woman! I have lost quite a bit of respect for him.

[Dipper9]

I fear that the Sox will retaliate, and the benches will be warned so we wont be able to do anything about it.

True, which means only one thing....

....we should throw at them first! Be proactive! Strike first and fast! ATTACK!!!!!!!!! :mwahaha: