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Angel's GM Out

Tank

By Tank
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rolliefingers All-Star

rolliefingers

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I have fully admitted how much he has declined so i have no idea what you are talking about here.

I know you have, but are you saying he was worth much more than Santana/Aybar? I do think he lowballed us a little, but I sure as hell wouldn't have given up much more than a mid-level prospect for Tejada.

Stoneman definitely erred on the side of caution, and I think time will vindicate that strategy.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Good points but still, the perception was there that he wouldn't make the big move to add another big bat to go with Vlad...Had he upped the offer and gotten Tejada or Manny last year, he may still have his job.

He would have overpaid for Tejada, and they wouldn't have done much better imo, they'd still likely be done right now. With Manny, defensively, him and Vlad would cause a lot of problems for them, obviously he would have helped offensively, but he wasn't worth his salary in the regular season.

Yes, the perception was there, but I disagree with it, and applaud him for sticking to his guns instead of letting the fans and media influence him.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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I think they should have added Kotchman last year. Kotchman/Santana/Aybar and i think that would have been a done deal.

He had been hurt...They had Morales to play first or they could have gone after someone in the offseason.

And no, i wouldn't have traded Wood and Adenhart last year but i am not so sure i would say no to that this year(not saying i would say yes either).

You of all people would have traded Kotchman along with those two.:eek: The Angels with Tejada this year < Angels with Kotchman this year. Would have been a bad trade already, not even taking into account the future imo.

Why are you not sure this year about that trade? Tejada's value has not gone up, the Angels didn't have a hole in their lineup, sure they could have used a big slugger, but Tejada is not that, and those two are still top 25 prospects.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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You of all people would have traded Kotchman along with those two.:eek: The Angels with Tejada this year < Angels with Kotchman this year. Would have been a bad trade already, not even taking into account the future imo.
I am not sure the Angels would have been better because of how bad Santana was. You need to include his 150 innings of an ERA of almost 6 when talking about how good or bad they would be if they had made the trade.

Also, at the time of the trade, Kotchman hadn't played all year and he had had a lot of injuries...Plus, trading for Tejada could have set off other moves, like moving Wood for a starter, in this past offseason. I know none of that can be counted on or anything, i am just saying that other options could have come out of it...Hell, Wood could have been their first baseman this year.

And maybe the Angels win the World Series last year if they traded for Miggy...Not saying they would have...Hell, they still may not have made the playoffs but i do think their chances would have been enhanced.

Why are you not sure this year about that trade? Tejada's value has not gone up, the Angels didn't have a hole in their lineup, sure they could have used a big slugger, but Tejada is not that, and those two are still top 25 prospects
.

I am not sure Adenhart is a top 25 prospect anymore....Definitely top 75 and probably top 50 though.

However, his year wasn't as bad as i thought(just looked at stats) it was so i would say that i wouldn't make the trade now.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Yeah, Santana was bad, but they could have taken him out of the rotation earlier if they wanted to, they still made the playoffs, and he didn't hurt them in the playoffs. I'd just rather have Kotchman than Tejada right now. Future, this isn't even close. Concerning other moves they could have made, that could have be done regardless, and Tejada isn't the big bat he could use.

I highly doubt they win it all last year with Tejada, I doubt they even make the playoffs, they missed out by 4 games, and Santana was good last year, I don't think Tejada makes up 4 games.

The lists I saw at midseason still had Adenhart quite high, we'll see where he ranks in the preseason lists.

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Sports Guy Hangout Grand Counsel

Sports Guy

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Yeah, Santana was bad, but they could have taken him out of the rotation earlier if they wanted to, they still made the playoffs, and he didn't hurt them in the playoffs. I'd just rather have Kotchman than Tejada right now. Future, this isn't even close. Concerning other moves they could have made, that could have be done regardless, and Tejada isn't the big bat they could use.
As would I. But again, the doubt had to be there at the time....Aybar wasn't a loss for them at all because of their depth at SS, so the deal was really Santana and Kotchman and they had depth in those positions as well.
I highly doubt they win it all last year with Tejada, I doubt they even make the playoffs, they missed out by 4 games, and Santana was good last year, I don't think Tejada makes up 4 games.
Santana had an ERA of 4.68 in the second half...Maybe they get that from someone else and have Tejada?....You may be right..In fact, i agree that it is unlikely they would have won and maybe not even make the playoffs but they may have and that possibility is an unknown but still needs to be considered.
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davearm All-Star

davearm

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There's always unknowns in would have been trades, but I think he was right not to include Kotchman, and I think he's done a great job.

Agreed.

At the time Santana + Aybar was a very fair offer for Tejada, aggressive even. I wouldn't have added to it either if I was Stoneman.

Should be interesting to see if the new guy has a different approach.

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Well at least it looks like I was right about an argument that has been had many times on here. That argument being whether or not Stoneman would be desperate enough to make a big enough offer to get Tejada to Anaheim. He obviously didn't do it, and he no longer has the chance to do so.:)

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davearm All-Star

davearm

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Well at least it looks like I was right about an argument that has been had many times on here. That argument being whether or not Stoneman would be desperate enough to make a big enough offer to get Tejada to Anaheim. He obviously didn't do it, and he no longer has the chance to do so.:)

Yep he put his best offer on the table a year ago... IMO that ship had sailed.

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TGO Hangout Grand Counsel

TGO

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Holy crap. Maybe I should go buy a lottery ticket.

I wasn't expecting it this early; I thought they'd just let his contract expire. I wonder why they/he didn't just wait?

Apparently Stoneman wanted to "retire."

Interesting that the new guy, Reagins, got his start 15 years ago as an intern for the Angels. Bet he worked a lot of unpaid hours and kissed a lot of butt (since that's what it takes to make it that far, in addition to a ton of luck in picking the right people to hitch your wagon to). ;)

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mweb Hangout Grand Counsel

mweb

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Apparently Stoneman wanted to "retire."

Interesting that the new guy, Reagins, got his start 15 years ago as an intern for the Angels. Bet he worked a lot of unpaid hours and kissed a lot of butt (since that's what it takes to make it that far, in addition to a ton of luck in picking the right people to hitch your wagon to). ;)

Yeah, it does seem that this was Stoneman's choice, so for the people saying his lack of moves cost him his job, it seems you're incorrect.

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