"MacPhail Wanted Buck to Take Over" (This Season)

[Flosman]

Trea again I will ask you how do you reconcile your Mantra with the two quotes striaght from Buck's mouth? I guess you can't so can you givethe rest of us a break from your obsession?

[JTrea81]

Trea again I will ask you how do you reconcile your Mantra with the two quotes striaght from Buck's mouth? I guess you can't so can you givethe rest of us a break from your obsession?

We'll see what happens at the end of the season and offseason.

I think everybody is just playing nice at this point.

The test is going to be when Showalter wants to get rid of one of MacPhail's pet players, or AM doesn't want to pursue somebody Showalter wants because he thinks it's too risky to acquire them.

I personally think it would be better for everybody if MacPhail left and Showalter was allowed to bring in his own GM, similar to how DJ brought in Gillick.

[Flosman]

We'll see what happens at the end of the season and offseason.

I think everybody is just playing nice at this point.

The test is going to be when Showalter wants to get rid of one of MacPhail's pet players, or AM doesn't want to pursue somebody Showalter wants because he thinks it's too risky to acquire them.

I personally think it would be better for everybody if MacPhail left and Showalter was allowed to bring in his own GM, similar to how DJ brought in Gillick.

So to get your view right you would like to accept that Buck is lying when he says AM is approaching things correctly. With the side effect of having another year of turmoil and take the system

AM created and have them reworked taking time and resources. This instead of keeping the guy Buck says is doing it right and has vastly increased the young talent under the O's control. When AM came aboard we had basically nothing at the ML level other than Roberts and Nick. You just want change until somebody that shares your warped view of how a baseball club should operate. Hate to tell you Sid Thrift died and no one would ever hire Steve Phillips so there is almost no chance the O's follow anything near you plan. Another question is how is Buck winning with AMs players? The answer is will it has been painful to watch AM has gathered alot of talent. I see no reason to expect that not to continue this year. I expect a trade or two this offseason and some signings but it won't be by some new Buck plan rather a continuation of AM's plan. What Buck brings to the equation is another top notch talent evaluator and a high end field general and most importantly a guy that demands wins. There is a widely held belief in coaching circles that in order to be great it is less important that you want to win than it is to hate losing with a passion. This what Buck brings IMO.

[Mad Mark]

I personally think it would be better for everybody if MacPhail left and Showalter was allowed to bring in his own GM, similar to how DJ brought in Gillick.

I personally think it would be better if you would stop making stuff up, but we all know that as the Prophet of the One True Way, you are always right, so that's not going to happen...but Pat Gillick was hired the year before Davey Johnson was hired to manage to the Orioles.

Please explain to us, oh enlightened one, how that translates into Johnson bringing Gillick on to the Orioles???

We're waiting...but not holding our breath.

[Sports Guy]

If Tony's info was in direct contradiction with what we heard by others about Buck being PA's choice, what would you naysayers be saying about Tony's info then?

I bet all of you would say, see, Buck was AM's choice...No reason to even discuss this anymore.

In other words, if Tony said what people like SJ and LIP wanted to hear, they would treat it like the gospel.

[Crazysilver03]

I personally think it would be better if you would stop making stuff up, but we all know that as the Prophet of the One True Way, you are always right, so that's not going to happen...but Pat Gillick was hired the year before Davey Johnson was hired to manage to the Orioles.

Please explain to us, oh enlightened one, how that translates into Johnson bringing Gillick on to the Orioles???

We're waiting...but not holding our breath.

Johnson came on board during October 2005 and Gillick followed suit in November 2005.

[Tony-OH]

Based on how you believe and back up your source I have to give you the respect that you deserve and say that I believe your source. I also believe that once the decision was made Macphail was 100 percent behind the hiring of Showalter. I was once in a situation where my boss overruled me on a hire. It turned out that I was wrong. In fact a couple of years after that I told the guy that I was against hiring him and that I was wrong.

He convinced me to make the hire and it turned out that I was wrong.

I have no information that says otherwise nor have I suggested there is any rift between the two since Showalter was hired.

[VTmook213]

We'll see what happens at the end of the season and offseason.

I think everybody is just playing nice at this point.

The test is going to be when Showalter wants to get rid of one of MacPhail's pet players, or AM doesn't want to pursue somebody Showalter wants because he thinks it's too risky to acquire them.

I personally think it would be better for everybody if MacPhail left and Showalter was allowed to bring in his own GM, similar to how DJ brought in Gillick.

I really just cannot wait for you to turn on Showalter.

[JTrea81]

I personally think it would be better if you would stop making stuff up, but we all know that as the Prophet of the One True Way, you are always right, so that's not going to happen...but Pat Gillick was hired the year before Davey Johnson was hired to manage to the Orioles.

Please explain to us, oh enlightened one, how that translates into Johnson bringing Gillick on to the Orioles???

We're waiting...but not holding our breath.

Johnson came on board during October 2005 and Gillick followed suit in November 2005.

What he said. If you read From 33rd Street to Camden Yards, you'll see a quote in there in which Gillick says the only reason he came to the Orioles was because DJ convinced him at the GM Meetings of 2005 as they were former teammates.

[glorydays]

If Tony's info was in direct contradiction with what we heard by others about Buck being PA's choice, what would you naysayers be saying about Tony's info then?

I bet all of you would say, see, Buck was AM's choice...No reason to even discuss this anymore.

In other words, if Tony said what people like SJ and LIP wanted to hear, they would treat it like the gospel.

I don't give a flip one way or another - and I think 99.9% who are arguing here don't care either. And I believe that a vast majority who think that BS was PA's choice and not necessarily AM's would agree that they have HOPE that they will work well together because that would be best for the team. They can see where the two compliment each other and could work together to make a strong management staff - but they do see where there could be conflicts in their personality.

What I have a problem with is the few who HOPE that it will turn into a disaster, simply because they believe that AM is not the right choice for GM. They would much rather there be turmoil so that AM will step aside - or PA will fire him. I just think that hoping for turmoil to prove your point is wrong.

[Aurelius]

My only concern is that both have reputations of being control freaks. Whether they can balance that out will be determined this off season in my opinion.

Not necessarily a problem. You can't expect two strong-minded people to agree on everything. In fact it can become tumultuous and still work. After reading Earl Weaver's book, I came away with the impression that he merely tolerated the GM, that he would be saying "yeah, right" in his mind while nodding his head in agreement. Same with the GM. It's a delicate balancing act, just as any other boss-employee, or peer-peer relationship.

And that's a big question mark. In my opinion, Buck's position should carry a lot more weight than a typical manager, particularly with respect to the Orioles recent past. Guys like Mazilli and Perlozzo not even being allowed to choose their own coaching staff... not good. Consequently, everyone (players) knew they had very little clout within the organization. Buck's responsibility should be expanded more in line with the role of assistant GM. Important decisions should go thru him as well as Andy.

[DrungoHazewood]

Not necessarily a problem. You can't expect two strong-minded people to agree on everything. In fact it can become tumultuous and still work. After reading Earl Weaver's book, I came away with the impression that he merely tolerated the GM, that he would be saying "yeah, right" in his mind while nodding his head in agreement. Same with the GM. It's a delicate balancing act, just as any other boss-employee, or peer-peer relationship.

I think it's been overblown that MacPhail and Showalter have to be best buddies. Some great, productive relationships are between people who frequently disagree. The tension and debate keeps both sides honest. Sometimes it works when there's always a check on the other's excesses.

[ShaneDawg85]

What he said. If you read From 33rd Street to Camden Yards, you'll see a quote in there in which Gillick says the only reason he came to the Orioles was because DJ convinced him at the GM Meetings of 2005 as they were former teammates.

That doesn't translate to, Johnson hired him or brought him on board. This happens all the time in sport, or it supposedly does. It has absolutely no bearing or merit with regards to MacPhail and Showalter.