"MacPhail Wanted Buck to Take Over" (This Season)

[VTmook213]

MacPhail could have just wanted whoever the manager was to start right away. And I doubt Andy would have overruled Angelos even if Angelos was the only one who wanted Showalter to start right away.

This info still does not prove that Showalter was MacPhail's choice, just that they wanted the new manager to start immediately.

But you've said numerous times that AM was so much against hiring Showalter (due to a variety of reasons) that Showalter's hiring signalled the beginning of the end of MacPhail's reign. And you're not the only one.

Yet MacPhail was campaigning for Buck to start this year. If AM was as much against the hiring of Buck as you would have everyone believe, does that really make any sense?

[LookitsPuck]

Its a big difference...If the reasoning AM didn't want Buck AS MUCH AS Wedge is because he could lose some power and things like that, then it easily could become an issue.

This is why you can't assume a new GM is in place by the end of the offseason...Who knows.

I mean seriously, if AM felt Wedge was the better guy, what intelligent reason could there be for that? Are we supposed to assume that Wedge is a better manager? More organized? Better in an interview? More respected?

It just doesn't add up unless you factor in a potential power struggle.

I think people like yourself and JTRea are creating something out of nothing.

Long story short: Angelos should have zero say in anything baseball related outside of budget. If he's interfering like he has in the past, we're in for a long, hard ride.

That said, why is it so cut and dry? Why couldn't Wedge and Showalter been MacPhail's choices? What about Bobby Valentine? Valentine isn't exactly a yes-man.

I think it was proven that Showalter was the right guy for this team, and it took a few interviews to do so. Same with Wedge.

People are making mountains out of molehills.

[waroriole]

This same song and dance by the same people with a vendetta against AM is ridiculous. They have latched on to one tidbit by an unnamed source that AM wanted Wedge and won't let go. They look for any piece of evidence to support their "theory" and ignore any other reasonable explanations.

[Sports Guy]

I think people like yourself and JTRea are creating something out of nothing.

Long story short: Angelos should have zero say in anything baseball related outside of budget. If he's interfering like he has in the past, we're in for a long, hard ride.

That said, why is it so cut and dry? Why couldn't Wedge and Showalter been MacPhail's choices? What about Bobby Valentine? Valentine isn't exactly a yes-man.

I think it was proven that Showalter was the right guy for this team, and it took a few interviews to do so. Same with Wedge.

People are making mountains out of molehills.

Well, here is the thing...Besides what Tony said(backing this up), I heard from 2 other people...One basically told me what Tony had heard and another told me that it's not true(and this person told me this before Tony's piece came out).

To sit there and act as if we are making this up or pulling it out of thin air is completely idiotic.

This isn't some bs theory that has no substance behind it.

[SilentJames]

Its a big difference...If the reasoning AM didn't want Buck AS MUCH AS Wedge is because he could lose some power and things like that, then it easily could become an issue.

This is why you can't assume a new GM is in place by the end of the offseason...Who knows.

I mean seriously, if AM felt Wedge was the better guy, what intelligent reason could there be for that? Are we supposed to assume that Wedge is a better manager? More organized? Better in an interview? More respected?

It just doesn't add up unless you factor in a potential power struggle.

Or it is a simple thing as internal discussions being taken out of context on Twitter and then conspiracy-minded fans running with it? The bottom line is we have no idea what was discussed and who really wanted who.

I mean, why would AM want Showalter to start now if he was worried about a power-struggle?

[Sports Guy]

Or it is a simple thing as internal discussions being taken out of context on Twitter and then conspiracy-minded fans running with it? The bottom line is we have no idea what was discussed and who really wanted who.

And yet, you dismiss the theory that perhaps AM wasn't in Buck's corner? Interesting..par for the course..and extremely inconsistent on your part.

I mean, why would AM want Showalter to start now if he was worried about a power-struggle?

Because he felt the manager, no matter who it was, should start now and put his stamp on the team?

[LookitsPuck]

Well, here is the thing...Besides what Tony said(backing this up), I heard from 2 other people...One basically told me what Tony had heard and another told me that it's not true(and this person told me this before Tony's piece came out).

To sit there and act as if we are making this up or pulling it out of thin air is completely idiotic.

This isn't some bs theory that has no substance behind it.

Making it up is one thing.

Blowing it out of proportion, like you're doing, is another...and quite idiotic.

Tony says one thing, and you're "claiming" other sources (have you even been vetted?). One of your sources confirms what Tony says, and the other says it's not true.

So read between the lines.

Why you're making this a big deal is beyond me. Showalter was hired. He had multiple interviews. He was pushed to start as soon as possible. Where is the problem here?

[byrdz]

"I love the smell of napalm in the morning."

[Frobby]

This info still does not prove that Showalter was MacPhail's choice, just that they wanted the new manager to start immediately.

And it isn't news. Showalter has mentioned at least once in a post-game presser that MacPhail had pressed him to take over before the season ended so he could better assess the team.

[waroriole]

And yet, you dismiss the theory that perhaps AM wasn't in Buck's corner? Interesting..par for the course..and extremely inconsistent on your part.

Because he felt the manager, no matter who it was, should start now and put his stamp on the team?

How did he dismiss it when he said we don't really know what happened? With that type of logic I could just as easily say that you keep trying to convince everyone that AM didn't want Buck.

Also, are either of you going to answer the question as to why AM wanted Buck to start immediately if he knew there was going to be a power struggle.

[Sports Guy]

Making it up is one thing.

Blowing it out of proportion, like you're doing, is another...and quite idiotic.

Tony says one thing, and you're "claiming" other sources (have you even been vetted?). One of your sources confirms what Tony says, and the other says it's not true.

So read between the lines.

Why you're making this a big deal is beyond me. Showalter was hired. He had multiple interviews. He was pushed to start as soon as possible. Where is the problem here?

The fact that you don't see the several problems with this tells me all I need to know...and one thing it tells me is that it is a waste of my time trying to explain things to you.

Let's just say this..its not good.

[Sports Guy]

How did he dismiss it when he said we don't really know what happened? With that type of logic I could just as easily say that you keep trying to convince everyone that AM didn't want Buck.

Also, are either of you going to answer the question as to why AM wanted Buck to start immediately if he knew there was going to be a power struggle.

I did answer it...So the new manager could put his stamp on the team.

The bottom line is this..If PA overruled AM and wanted Buck, then Buck was going to be the manager, whether AM wanted it or not...And because of that, he decided to go along with it and wanted Buck to start immediately.

BTW, i don't think AM was neccassarily against Buck...In other words, it wasn't a him or me situation. However, that doesn't mean he wanted Buck hired.

[waroriole]

I did answer it...So the new manager could put his stamp on the team.

The bottom line is this..If PA overruled AM and wanted Buck, then Buck was going to be the manager, whether AM wanted it or not...And because of that, he decided to go along with it and wanted Buck to start immediately.

BTW, i don't think AM was neccassarily against Buck...In other words, it wasn't a him or me situation. However, that doesn't mean he wanted Buck hired.

And you're basing this off of one piece of "inside info" even though it was contradicted by someone else? I expect this kind of thing from Trea, but not you. You call out SJ for not believing the story, but it sounds like you are insisting that this is the case with such little proof.

[SilentJames]

And yet, you dismiss the theory that perhaps AM wasn't in Buck's corner? Interesting..par for the course..and extremely inconsistent on your part.

Because he felt the manager, no matter who it was, should start now and put his stamp on the team?

But if he is worried about losing power then why would he be in a hurry to have the manager put his stamp on the team?

I mean I will concede that there could easily be some level of front office intrigue. But why can't you concede that while AM may have preferred Wedge, which I have said MULTIPLE TIMES (!), but agreed to Showalter and is totally fine with it?

Why is that so hard to believe, why must everything be rooted in some sort of front-office conspiracy? That is my only question.

I know reading and having a civil discussion isn't your strong suit. But come off you damned high horse for one second and actually read, think and comprehend. I'll use small sentences:

Why is this scenario so unheard of?

AM: I like Wedge

PA: I prefer Showalter

AM: Interesting, they are both good, let us have a discussion where we look at the merits of these men.

PA: I agree

::::Discussion:::

AM:: Agreed, let us go with Showalter. I want him to start this season.

Why is that above scenario so hard to believe? Why is it so hard to believe that two grown men can have a personnel discussion and reach a decision together?

[LookitsPuck]

The fact that you don't see the several problems with this tells me all I need to know...and one thing it tells me is that it is a waste of my time trying to explain things to you.

Let's just say this..its not good.

It's one thing to recognize whether or not it's a problem. IF it's true, then, yes, it's problematic. IF. IF. IF.

The problem here, is the evidence is something like this: 90% against what you're saying, 10% for.

The truth is usually somewhere in the middle. This much I can say: Peter Angelos should never, ever, ever have anything to say regarding baseball decisions outside of budget. Period. Overruling trades, managerial decisions, dropping players, calling up players, etc. No say. He's proven time and time again that he is horrendous.

Here is what I think went down: MacPhail had a list of managerial candidates: Valentine, Wedge, Showalter, and possibly others. Valentine quickly declined wanting it. Wedge and Showalter were the last 2 legitimate choices (Dempsey will never be a legitimate choice). Two quality, different guys. You need to ensure the one selected is the right guy for the job. Multiple interviews, multiple months later..Showalter is our guy.

MacPhail obviously wanted 1 of these guys. I don't think he'd just bring in Showalter for kicks and giggles. Do you? Did he prefer one over the other? You can't say definitively. Neither can JTrea. Yet you guys keep pushing it. Tony's story says one thing. Your "source" says another.

The truth lies somewhere in the middle. But I think the middle is closer to MacPhail WANTING Showalter as opposed to him not and Angelos overruling him.

You believe the opposite.

You bash people for making assumptions, but you know what's hilarious? You're probably the one most guilty of doing so. Conspiracy theorists unite, I guess.