Adding some patience

[Frobby]

Derrek Lee -- 4.24 P/PA

Adam Dunn -- 4.11 P/PA

Brandon Inge -- 4.11 P/PA

Paul Konerko -- 4.07 P/PA

Carlos Pena -- 3.95 P/PA

Victor Martinez -- 3.89 P/PA

Adrian Beltre -- 3.75 P/PA

Every single one of these guys is above the Orioles' team average of 3.71. And almost every SS in baseball is more patient than Cesar Izturis (3.32 P/PA). I'd really like to see us add some patient hitters, and then with BRob hopefully playing a full season maybe we won't be 29th of 30 teams in walks.

[waroriole]

Good stuff Frobby. Where do you find P/PA? I've never looked hard for it, but also never run across it anywhere.

From what I remember, Beltre wasn't ever exactly a patient hitter. I wonder if being in Boston changed his approach, and if it would be something that we would continue after seeing how well it worked this year.

[VAB2110]

Derrek Lee -- 4.24 P/PA

Adam Dunn -- 4.11 P/PA

Brandon Inge -- 4.11 P/PA

Paul Konerko -- 4.07 P/PA

Carlos Pena -- 3.95 P/PA

Victor Martinez -- 3.89 P/PA

Adrian Beltre -- 3.75 P/PA

Every single one of these guys is above the Orioles' team average of 3.71. And almost every SS in baseball is more patient than Cesar Izturis (3.32 P/PA). I'd really like to see us add some patient hitters, and then with BRob hopefully playing a full season maybe we won't be 29th of 30 teams in walks.

Come on, man. Don't you know Terry Crowley is supposed to turn our free-swingers into patient hitters.

[LookinUp]

The Crowley debate notwithstanding, we must do a better job of targeting patient hitters in all facets of player acquisition...and to the extent it's teachable, it should be an integral part of our player development/coaching at all levels.

FWIW, Aramis Ramirez was at 3.86 and Jayson Werth is at 4.37.

[Ruzious]

The Crowley debate notwithstanding, we must do a better job of targeting patient hitters in all facets of player acquisition...and to the extent it's teachable, it should be an integral part of our player development/coaching at all levels.

FWIW, Aramis Ramirez was at 3.86 and Jayson Werth is at 4.37.

I believe Werth led the majors - making him worth more. I think this is an important stat beyond it generally leading to more walks. It helps the rest of your team, because it tires out the opposing pitcher and it gives your teammates more of an opportunity to look at the pitcher's stuff.

[JTrea81]

The Crowley debate notwithstanding, we must do a better job of targeting patient hitters in all facets of player acquisition...and to the extent it's teachable, it should be an integral part of our player development/coaching at all levels.

FWIW, Aramis Ramirez was at 3.86 and Jayson Werth is at 4.37.

The more I think about Werth, the more I think he should be our top target if Beltre does not want to play on the East Coast.

[Ruzious]

The more I think about Werth, the more I think he should be our top target if Beltre does not want to play on the East Coast.

Even though he'll command a ton, I agree.

[JTrea81]

Even though he'll command a ton, I agree.

I think a 5/90 offer gets him.

Werth would solidify our OF and his ability to play CF helps with versatility and depth.

[Stotle]

I think a 5/90 offer gets him.

Werth would solidify our OF and his ability to play CF helps with versatility and depth.

So, a 1B is certain to be declining in his 30s, but an OF playing a more physically demanding position is a good investment for 90 million between ages 32 and 36?

Are you aware of your inconsistencies or do you just purposefully delete past arguments from your memory?

Again, to summarize the world of Trea:

Derrek Lee "Horrible" Contract

• 2 yrs (age 35-36) for $16 million with $10 million vesting option
• age 35 and 36 around $8 million per year with $10 million age 37 vesting if he's healthy

Jayson Werth Good Contract

• 5 yrs (age 32-36) for $90 million
• age 35 and 36 around $20 million per year if at all back-loaded

And, again, Werth plays a much more demanding position (particularly on the knees) running and sliding around the outfield.

[clapdiddy]

I think a 5/90 offer gets him.

Werth would solidify our OF and his ability to play CF helps with versatility and depth.

Wow...is he really and 18M/Year player? I was thinking a 5/75 deal could land him...and I thought that was high.

If we were to add Werth, D. Lee, and Reynolds, it would go a long way in our efforts against LH pitching and give us some much-needed patience and power.

These 3 guys could be "realistic" gets as well.

[JTrea81]

Wow...is he really and 18M/Year player? I was thinking a 5/75 deal could land him...and I thought that was high.

If we were to add Werth, D. Lee, and Reynolds, it would go a long way in our efforts against LH pitching and give us some much-needed patience and power.

These 3 guys could be "realistic" gets as well.

Boras factor + competition to land him.

You will be competing against the Red Sox, Yankees and others for his services.

[JTrea81]

So, a 1B is certain to be declining in his 30s, but an OF playing a more physically demanding position is a good investment for 90 million between ages 32 and 36?

Are you aware of your inconsistencies or do you just purposefully delete past arguments from your memory?

Again, to summarize the world of Trea:

Derrek Lee "Horrible" Contract

• 2 yrs (age 35-36) for $16 million with $10 million vesting option
• age 35 and 36 around $8 million per year with $10 million age 37 vesting if he's healthy

Jayson Werth Good Contract

• 5 yrs (age 32-36) for $90 million
• age 35 and 36 around $20 million per year if at all back-loaded

And, again, Werth plays a much more demanding position (particularly on the knees) running and sliding around the outfield.

It's all about the age difference. Werth has shown no signs of slowing down.

I think he's got 3 good years in him left. 32-34. He's put up close to three 5.0 WAR seasons in a row so it stands to reason he has one or two more of those left.

32- 5.0

33- 5.0

34 -4.0

35 -3.0

36 -2.0

You pay more for younger players as they are more productive.

[Sports Guy]

It's all about the age difference. Werth has shown no signs of slowing down.

I think he's got 3 good years in him left. 32-34. He's put up close to three 5.0 WAR seasons in a row.

You pay more for younger players as they are more productive.

Neither did Lee.

[Stotle]

It's all about the age difference. Werth has shown no signs of slowing down.

I think he's got 3 good years in him left. 32-34

You pay more for younger players.

Okay. So either Lee was in decline at age 32 and you were aware of it, or you acknowledge there is a good chance you'll be throwing away a little over $40 million over Werth's final two years and you're fine with it because he should (if healthy) perform pretty well over the first three years.

No concerns with wear-n-tear on the knees. No consideration of someone like Berkman who saw a steep drop-off at age 34 (this year).

I'll roll the dice and say there is a fair chance your 5/90 results in a good first two years, and okay third year a bad fourth and a really bad fifth (all as compared to the price tag). So, around $16 million his first year and $17 million his second year where he'll need to be a 4 WAR player to be worth it. Then, a good chance at declining performance for $19-20 million over the next three years.

Sign me up!

[Sports Guy]

Okay. So either Lee was in decline at age 32 and you were aware of it, or you acknowledge there is a good chance you'll be throwing away a little over $40 million over Werth's final two years and you're fine with it because he should (if healthy) perform pretty well over the first three years.

No concerns with wear-n-tear on the knees. No consideration of someone like Berkman who saw a steep drop-off at age 34 (this year).

I'll roll the dice and say there is a fair chance your 5/90 results in a good first two years, and okay third year a bad fourth and a really bad fifth (all as compared to the price tag). So, around $16 million his first year and $17 million his second year where he'll need to be a 4 WAR player to be worth it. Then, a good chance at declining performance for $19-20 million over the next three years.

Sign me up!

And the first year of that awful contract would be in a year that is very unlikely to see the Orioles in contention.

BTW, I find it funny that Jtrea's price for Werth has raised with Boras being named his agent...Boras would love to deal with Trea.