Adding some patience

[OsLuvrInKy]

So what we are saying here is our lineup, unlike last year, does not have any true easy outs?

[Frobby]

So what we are saying here is our lineup, unlike last year, does not have any true easy outs?

I think we're saying a lot more than that. This is a team that is going to make opposing pitchers work every AB. This is a team that isn't going to allow opposing pitchers to go deep in games. I'm looking forward to watching them work opposing pitchers.

[Moose Milligan]

Maybe Jones can learn some patience.

[OsLuvrInKy]

I think we're saying a lot more than that. This is a team that is going to make opposing pitchers work every AB. This is a team that isn't going to allow opposing pitchers to go deep in games. I'm looking forward to watching them work opposing pitchers.

Completely agree. Looks like we are definitely renewing the MLB package this year. I have so looked forward to a time when we had a line-up that did not include easy outs.

I don't mind a strike out but make the opposing pitcher work for it. Get into their bullpen in the 5th-6th inning. Have not looked forward to a season opener like this in a long time.

Only thing that would make me happier is getting a good DH RH bat.

Scott in LF

Pie the 4th outfielder

Reimold starts at AAA until he proves himself. If he forces his way up then we are in the good position of being able to actually trade a decent player.

I can always hope. Now where is that pitcher of kool-aid?

[Frobby]

Maybe Jones can learn some patience.

Having patient hitters around him, and not feeling like he needs to carry the whole offense, should help Adam considerably. I think the whole offense is going to benefit by guys not having players trying to do too much to make up for the big holes elsewhere.

[Spy Fox]

Having patient hitters around him, and not feeling like he needs to carry the whole offense, should help Adam considerably. I think the whole offense is going to benefit by guys not having players trying to do too much to make up for the big holes elsewhere.

Good point. It must have been disheartening for Jones and Wieters to think, "Man, if I don't get a rally going here it's Atkins, Lugo, Izturis up next!"

Even as a fan, I would get anxious watching whoever was hitting 5th or 6th, knowing that if they didn't get on base there would be nothing happening for the next two innings.

[jiminnj]

A big thing in patience are the changes from last year.

Last year at 3rd base we had Tejada at 3.26 pitches/PA and Bell at 3.67, an average of about 3.40 over the season, next year we will have Reynolds at 4.16, a change of about .75 pitches per plate appearance

Last year at short we have Izturis at 3.31 pitches/plate appearance, Hardy last year was 3.89, an increase of .58 pitches/PA.

Last year in LF it was mainly Patterson at 3.34 pitches per plate appearance and Pie at 3.44 pitches/PA, this year if we have a good bit of Reimold at close of 4.00 pitches/PA it should be much higher

Last year at 1st base we had Atkins at 3.81 pitches/PA and Wiggington at 3.76 pitches/PA, this year we will have Lee at 4.24 pitches per plate appearance.

BRob a whole year at second will give us more patience.

What this adds up to is the starting pitcher having to throw 8-14 more pitches and so they will come out of the game 2/3 to and inning earlier than last year.

That adds up to more innings facing middle relievers!!!!!

But the biggest change and the best way to make pitchers throw more pitches is to get on base without making an out so that the pitcher not only throws those pitches to the batter who got on base but has to face another batter to get through the inning. Every extra batter a pitcher needs to face adds about 4 pitches.

Looking at the changes in OBP for our upgrades

.................2009..............2010

3rd base........290......Reynolds career OBP .340

SS................277.....Hardy career OBP .331

1b................289.....Lee career OBP .367

The 2009 numbers above are the accumulative numbers for the Os for the season from those positions.

We are going to have a lot more baserunners coming from these three upgrades which are going to make opposing pitchers work harder and leave the game sooner. More innings against middle relievers!!!

Last year from 3rd, SS, and 1B we got 21, 27, and 53 walks over 162 games. Reynolds, Hardy, and Lee in their careers have received 74, 52, and 74 walks per 162 games played. We should get about 100 more walks out of these 3 than we got out of those 3 positions last year.

I am so looking forward to games where it is the opposing pitchers who are approaching 100 pitches in the 5th inning, and we are looking to face their middle relievers for a few innings. This is going to be happening frequently next year. It will be fun.

[JayThomas]

A big thing in patience are the changes from last year.

Last year at 3rd base we had Tejada at 3.26 pitches/PA and Bell at 3.67, an average of about 3.40 over the season, next year we will have Reynolds at 4.16, a change of about .75 pitches per plate appearance

Last year at short we have Izturis at 3.31 pitches/plate appearance, Hardy last year was 3.89, an increase of .58 pitches/PA.

Last year in LF it was mainly Patterson at 3.34 pitches per plate appearance and Pie at 3.44 pitches/PA, this year if we have a good bit of Reimold at close of 4.00 pitches/PA it should be much higher

Last year at 1st base we had Atkins at 3.81 pitches/PA and Wiggington at 3.76 pitches/PA, this year we will have Lee at 4.24 pitches per plate appearance.

BRob a whole year at second will give us more patience.

What this adds up to is the starting pitcher having to throw 8-14 more pitches and so they will come out of the game 2/3 to and inning earlier than last year.

That adds up to more innings facing middle relievers!!!!!

But the biggest change and the best way to make pitchers throw more pitches is to get on base without making an out so that the pitcher not only throws those pitches to the batter who got on base but has to face another batter to get through the inning. Every extra batter a pitcher needs to face adds about 4 pitches.

Looking at the changes in OBP for our upgrades

.................2009..............2010

3rd base........290......Reynolds career OBP .340

SS................277.....Hardy career OBP .331

1b................289.....Lee career OBP .367

The 2009 numbers above are the accumulative numbers for the Os for the season from those positions.

We are going to have a lot more baserunners coming from these three upgrades which are going to make opposing pitchers work harder and leave the game sooner. More innings against middle relievers!!!

Last year from 3rd, SS, and 1B we got 21, 27, and 53 walks over 162 games. Reynolds, Hardy, and Lee in their careers have received 74, 52, and 54 walks per 162 games played. We should get about 100 more walks out of these 3 than we got out of those 3 positions last year.

I am so looking forward to games where it is the opposing pitchers who are approaching 100 pitches in the 5th inning, and we are looking to face their middle relievers for a few innings. This is going to be happening frequently next year. It will be fun.

Must spread rep ...

Great data. This is going to be fun. Why, we might actually look professional out there at the plate this year. I'm thrilled to have Lee in the lineup, just for the quality of his at-bats.

[Moose Milligan]

Having patient hitters around him, and not feeling like he needs to carry the whole offense, should help Adam considerably. I think the whole offense is going to benefit by guys not having players trying to do too much to make up for the big holes elsewhere.

Totally agreed. I hope good at bats and guys with good approaches rub off on Jones.

I think Jones could be an absolute monster if he disciplined himself.

[JayThomas]

Totally agreed. I hope good at bats and guys with good approaches rub off on Jones.

I think Jones could be an absolute monster if he disciplined himself.

Ditto ... and I've never really been a Jones fan. (But) if he could just settle down and control the strike zone, he could indeed be a monster. There has to be some effect through osmosis, no?

[jiminnj]

Totally agreed. I hope good at bats and guys with good approaches rub off on Jones.

I think Jones could be an absolute monster if he disciplined himself.

The one thing I would like to see Jones improve is pitch selection when he is ahead in the count. The impression I got from watching him that when he got ahead, 2-0, 3-1, he would swing very aggressively at just about anything. The pitchers did not need to throw him a strike then, because regardless of what they threw, he would be swinging. If he was more selective there, he would only be swinging at pitches he could drive, and would also be seeing more 3-0 counts and more walks.

[jiminnj]

We have 4 guys left on this team who lack almost all plate discipline, Pie, Jones, Izturis and Fox. Last year they averaged 3.44, 3.65, 3.31 and 3.46 pitches/PA, respectively and over their careers they have averaged 30, 30, 29, and 22 BB/162 games. Only 1 is a regular, Jones, as I suspect Pie will split time with Reimold in LF. It is an open question whether Fox will make the team.

This is such a big change from last year where Jones, Tejada (then Bell), Izturis, Pie and Lugo were starters in many games.

[LookinUp]

The one thing I would like to see Jones improve is pitch selection when he is ahead in the count. The impression I got from watching him that when he got ahead, 2-0, 3-1, he would swing very aggressively at just about anything. The pitchers did not need to throw him a strike then, because regardless of what they threw, he would be swinging. If he was more selective there, he would only be swinging at pitches he could drive, and would also be seeing more 3-0 counts and more walks.

It'll be interesting to see if guys like Jones and Pie really improve in this area with a new hitting coach and better players around them.

I have no idea if they will, but it's nice that they'll be in a better atmosphere for hitters.

[El Gordo]

Having patient hitters around him, and not feeling like he needs to carry the whole offense, should help Adam considerably. I think the whole offense is going to benefit by guys not having players trying to do too much to make up for the big holes elsewhere.

Derrick Lee is going to be the best thing that ever happened to Jonesy.

[El Gordo]

It'll be interesting to see if guys like Jones and Pie really improve in this area with a new hitting coach and better players around them.

I have no idea if they will, but it's nice that they'll be in a better atmosphere for hitters.

Well This new hitting coach is not known for being patient himself, or gettinmg much out of his players....:scratchchinhmm: