Tillman/Britton or vet innings eater

[Avsfan]

This is just a stupid statement.

From Trea? Get the hell out of dodge...

[theobird]

I didn't answer this poll, because it is hard to know they will need to add a starter or not until after the dealing is done. In other words, you would have to know what the O's strategy is. Buck and Andy may have decided in there little set down with PA, that they are going to shop Guthrie for a third baseman. Or they may have decide to shop one or more of the Cavalry. We just don't know. But, if we had the same guys we have now when ST breaks, I would stay with the in house pitching. I am guessing though that one or more of our pitchers are traded this offseason, and that at least one Pitcher will be added.

[24fps]

I would like to see the Orioles add a veteran #4 or better pitcher. I think there's a new sheriff in town and the Orioles are going to transition from a rebuilding team to a competitive team. I haven't seen any evidence that Tillman is ready to be the man and there isn't much of a downside to allowing Tillman and Britton to spend time either in Norfork or the bullpen.

The title "new sheriff in town" was officially retired when Kevin Malone took the GM job in LA a decade or so ago.

[JTrea81]

This is just a stupid statement.

Why is that? Roch has already said that Tillman is the most expendable out of the young starters and the Orioles won't be able to get what they want all out of FA.

So yes if the Orioles make trades for established talent this offseason, Tillman is likely to be one of the trade chips that they use, thus he should not be an Oriole next year if the Orioles are to have a successful offseason and get what they need.

[birdman57]

Pick your vet starter on a 1 year committment..Either a FA signing or another Millwood type trade or even Millwood himself.

Would you rather bring in one of those types of starters or would you rather give Tillman or Britton those starts for this coming season?

Notes:

1) This is obviously for that last rotation spot..Assumption being Matusz, Guthrie, BB and Arrieta are in rotation.

2) None of those 4 starters named in #1 are traded.

EDIT: Obviously the Orioles could go the route of a trade or signing a pitcher for a longer committment..This is simply a poll examining going with the youth or another Millwood type guy..If those were your 2 choices, which direction would you prefer them to go in?

Pass on the innings eater .. been there and done that twice in recent years with lousy results. Just keep Bergesen away from shooting commercials:)

[DrungoHazewood]

Why is that? Roch has already said that Tillman is the most expendable out of the young starters and the Orioles won't be able to get what they want all out of FA.

So yes if the Orioles make trades for established talent this offseason, Tillman is likely to be one of the trade chips that they use, thus he should not be an Oriole next year if the Orioles are to have a successful offseason and get what they need.

1) If you're expecting to get a low-risk, high-performance player with Tillman as the main piece the O's are giving up, you don't really understand how trading works.

2) If you're expecting the O's to put together a large package of young players with Tillman as a sweetener, you don't understand risk or the success cycle.

3) If you're expecting the O's to trade a few good-but-not-great prospects like Tillman for a one-year rental of Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez you don't understand a whole host of basic concepts in franchise building.

[JTrea81]

1) If you're expecting to get a low-risk, high-performance player with Tillman as the main piece the O's are giving up, you don't really understand how trading works.

2) If you're expecting the O's to put together a large package of young players with Tillman as a sweetener, you don't understand risk or the success cycle.

3) If you're expecting the O's to trade a few good-but-not-great prospects like Tillman for a one-year rental of Prince Fielder or Adrian Gonzalez you don't understand a whole host of basic concepts in franchise building.

I'm expecting the Orioles to acquire the talent needed to win as many games as they can next season, and to do that, they can't hang on to every young player. Tillman could be traded in a Rasmus deal for instance or to the Cubs for ARam if he was made available, or maybe even for Mark Reynolds.

The point is Tillman is expendable and his young age still makes him an attractive trade chip if not our best one. The Orioles would be foolish not to take advantage of the value he still has left. One more year like he had last year and he's the next Hayden Penn. The Orioles should have learned by now it's better to deal these players before they crash and burn.

[Frobby]

I'm expecting the Orioles to acquire the talent needed to win as many games as they can next season, and to do that, they can't hang on to every young player. Tillman could be traded in a Rasmus deal for instance or to the Cubs for ARam if he was made available, or maybe even for Mark Reynolds.

The point is Tillman is expendable and his young age still makes him an attractive trade chip if not our best one. The Orioles would be foolish not to take advantage of the value he still has left. One more year like he had last year and he's the next Hayden Penn. The Orioles should have learned by now it's better to deal these players before they crash and burn.

I have given about 3 negative rep points in the 7 years I've been on OH, and I am this close to giving you one.

Everybody knows you want to trade Tillman. You've made your points 1,000 times in 500 different threads. Yet you feel the need to raise it again in this thread, which is based on a hypothetical where we are choosing between a veteran starter and Tillman/Britton. Unbelievable.

I don't mind you expressing your overall point of view, but in this case, please just shut up and let the people who want to address SG's hypothetical address it without derailing yet another thread.

[Sports Guy]

Why is that? Roch has already said that Tillman is the most expendable out of the young starters and the Orioles won't be able to get what they want all out of FA.

So yes if the Orioles make trades for established talent this offseason, Tillman is likely to be one of the trade chips that they use, thus he should not be an Oriole next year if the Orioles are to have a successful offseason and get what they need.

What Roch said is if the Orioles were to trade one of the young starters, that Tillman is the likely candidate...I know you have reading comprehension problems but that doesn't mean he is expendable..It just means that several of ther young pitchers have moved aheadof him right now.

Secondly, the statement is idiotic because it didn't take into account return in trade. All you said is Tillman shouldn't be an Oriole next year. And, coming from you and your inability to be able to evaluate players correctly, that tells me you are trading him just to trade him and that is stupid.

[Sports Guy]

I'm expecting the Orioles to acquire the talent needed to win as many games as they can next season, and to do that, they can't hang on to every young player. Tillman could be traded in a Rasmus deal for instance or to the Cubs for ARam if he was made available, or maybe even for Mark Reynolds.

The point is Tillman is expendable and his young age still makes him an attractive trade chip if not our best one. The Orioles would be foolish not to take advantage of the value he still has left. One more year like he had last year and he's the next Hayden Penn. The Orioles should have learned by now it's better to deal these players before they crash and burn.

Tillman in a Rasmus deal makes sense.

Tillman for ARam is a trade that would be as dumb as it gets.

Tillman for Reynolds is probably a poor idea but at least there is a little merit to it..That being said, if Reynolds is available in trade, I doubt they get a Tillman level prospect for him.

[JTrea81]

I have given about 3 negative rep points in the 7 years I've been on OH, and I am this close to giving you one.

Everybody knows you want to trade Tillman. You've made your points 1,000 times in 500 different threads. Yet you feel the need to raise it again in this thread, which is based on a hypothetical where we are choosing between a veteran starter and Tillman/Britton. Unbelievable.

I don't mind you expressing your overall point of view, but in this case, please just shut up and let the people who want to address SG's hypothetical address it without derailing yet another thread.

I was clarifying my position and I am on topic.

I answered his question and stated why I felt the way I did. SG was the one that decided to make an issue about it by calling it a "stupid statement."

I don't intend to turn this into a "trade Tillman" thread but when you are called "stupid" for suggesting something that other respected folks have suggested including another poster on this very thread, I feel the need to go on the defense. Sorry if it derails the thread, but I am not going to let fellow posters attack my position and my intelligence without defending it.

So no if you call me "stupid" I'm not going to "shut up."

[JTrea81]

Secondly, the statement is idiotic because it didn't take into account return in trade. All you said is Tillman shouldn't be an Oriole next year. And, coming from you and your inability to be able to evaluate players correctly, that tells me you are trading him just to trade him and that is stupid.

Jeremy Guthrie says hi.

And no I am not just trading him to trade him. If you can't get value in return you keep him, but I think we can, obviously.

And I am done with this...

[DrungoHazewood]

The point is Tillman is expendable and his young age still makes him an attractive trade chip if not our best one. The Orioles would be foolish not to take advantage of the value he still has left. One more year like he had last year and he's the next Hayden Penn. The Orioles should have learned by now it's better to deal these players before they crash and burn.

Ok, we get it. We understand. You are driven absolutely crazy by uncertaintly and risk, and for some reason think that premium, expensive, established players have no risk and little cost. So the O's should trade most of their non-expensive, non-established players for premium talent/contracts.

[Sports Guy]

I was clarifying my position and I am on topic.

I answered his question and stated why I felt the way I did. SG was the one that decided to make an issue about it by calling it a "stupid statement."

I don't intend to turn this into a "trade Tillman" thread but when you are called "stupid" for suggesting something that other respected folks have suggested including another poster on this very thread, I feel the need to go on the defense. Sorry if it derails the thread, but I am not going to let fellow posters attack my position and my intelligence without defending it.

So no if you call me "stupid" I'm not going to "shut up."

I said your statement was stupid, not you...And yes, your statement was stupid.

I mean, you are basically trading Tillman for the heck of it. You are willing to move him for one year's worth of ARam, coming off of a subpar year? Really? What good is that doing for the team?

Basically, if we trade for a guy that you have actually heard of, Tillman is the guy you will trade for him...even if no one else is offering up anything close to that.

[Mr. Solo Dolo]

And I am done with this...