MFY readying Lee offer; Red Sox contact Werth

[El Gordo]

It's not so much that we should be in on Lee or Werth...it's that you see good teams and good organizations waste absolutely no time in going after what they want. Now of course it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the Yankees were going to go after Lee. I haven't been paying attention to the Sox, their needs and who people think they'll be targeting...but Werth makes sense for them.

Now granted we're not going after any of these guys...anyone who expects differently has their head in the sand, to borrow a phrase from a certain poster on here. But it's not like the Orioles didn't have access to a list of potential FA's that'd be available this winter a few months ago.

It just sucks to see our direct competitors one of which (Boston) who is routinely amongst the best run and most forward thinking teams in the game get out to a roaring start for the offseason...you get the feeling that these teams were preparing for this weeks, maybe months ago.

Year after year we just sit here and watch better run organizations make better moves than us, time and time again. And year after year the Orioles are slow to act...they "kick the tires" and they "wait for the market to set itself" while other franchises are busting their asses to get better as quick as they can.

My gripe here isn't that we're missing out on Lee and Werth...it's that we're probably going to be waiting till December until the Orioles start to move and refuse to think outside the box.

None of this makes much sense to me. You don't think we should be going after Lee and Werth, but you are upset because there are no press reports of us going after Lee and Werth? As I said elsewhere I think the O's should be working on a trade for 3B and SS, and maybe LF. There are no major FA out there for these needs. 1B is definitely a situation where we should wait for the market, because there are no slam dunk options, and you want to gat the best value. What do you suggest we should be doing?

[mikezpen]

I'd try to sign Martinez to play first and Jose Lopez for third. He had a bad yr. for Seattle last season but is only 26 and had two good years previously. Better than average fielder.

If Martinez doesn't work, I'd still go for Butler. More and more, I'd like to see them try for Grienke. Keep Izturis unless something really great presents itself. Manny's there soon, anyway.

[Dipper9]

It's not so much that we should be in on Lee or Werth...it's that you see good teams and good organizations waste absolutely no time in going after what they want. Now of course it doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that the Yankees were going to go after Lee. I haven't been paying attention to the Sox, their needs and who people think they'll be targeting...but Werth makes sense for them.

Now granted we're not going after any of these guys...anyone who expects differently has their head in the sand, to borrow a phrase from a certain poster on here. But it's not like the Orioles didn't have access to a list of potential FA's that'd be available this winter a few months ago.

It just sucks to see our direct competitors one of which (Boston) who is routinely amongst the best run and most forward thinking teams in the game get out to a roaring start for the offseason...you get the feeling that these teams were preparing for this weeks, maybe months ago.

Year after year we just sit here and watch better run organizations make better moves than us, time and time again. And year after year the Orioles are slow to act...they "kick the tires" and they "wait for the market to set itself" while other franchises are busting their asses to get better as quick as they can.

My gripe here isn't that we're missing out on Lee and Werth...it's that we're probably going to be waiting till December until the Orioles start to move and refuse to think outside the box.

I respect Moose's posts greatly, but this one may be the best he's ever had!

Editors note: Hottie draft posts are not included in this statement! :hearts:

[Dipper9]

None of this makes much sense to me. You don't think we should be going after Lee and Werth, but you are upset because there are no press reports of us going after Lee and Werth? As I said elsewhere I think the O's should be working on a trade for 3B and SS, and maybe LF. There are no major FA out there for these needs. 1B is definitely a situation where we should wait for the market, because there are no slam dunk options, and you want to gat the best value. What do you suggest we should be doing?

You are completely missing the point. The irritation is not with the fact that we are not going hard after Werth and Lee. The irritation is the fact that once again it appears the Orioles FO is sitting back, letting the market set itself, and not being aggresive in our pursuit of filling the AT LEAST three major holes on this team.

Why do we always need to wait until December or January to start filling our needs? Why can we never be the ones making the November trades? Why? Because its MacPhail's MO to sit back and wait while the teams ahead of us make themselves better.

[ChaosLex]

You are completely missing the point. The irritation is not with the fact that we are not going hard after Werth and Lee. The irritation is the fact that once again it appears the Orioles FO is sitting back, letting the market set itself, and not being aggresive in our pursuit of filling the AT LEAST three major holes on this team.

Why do we always need to wait until December or January to start filling our needs? Why can we never be the ones making the November trades? Why? Because its MacPhail's MO to sit back and wait while the teams ahead of us make themselves better.

Now that Buck is in the fold, I feel much more confident in the whole process. Pass me the orange Kool-Aid.

[mikezpen]

I hope Buck doesn't become disillusioned with his decision to join the Orioles.

I'd rather see them stand pat and do nothing than sign a couple of pieces of aging junk after declaring how they'd made "serious offers" to so-and-so, and that they "remain committed" to building a contending team.

[Dipper9]

Now that Buck is in the fold, I feel much more confident in the whole process. Pass me the orange Kool-Aid.

I appreciate your optimism, and the only reason I am not getting my hopes up is because this organization has burned me too many times now. That said, if the Orioles are serious about getting better, what possible reason do we have for not resigning Koji already, unless he just doesn't want to come back here???? That is an easy move (resigning your own) that should have been taken care of before the free agency period began.

[wildcard]

No one knows how many agents MacPhail has called since Sunday morning. He is not going to tell the press his game plan. I don't have any idea if he is sitting back waiting or is very active on several players. And I don't expect to know for a while.

Just because the Yankees and Red Sox declare their intentions and the O's don't doesn't mean the O's are sitting on their thumbs or that they are burning up the phones. It means we don't know what's happening with the O's.

[Dipper9]

No one knows how many agents MacPhail has called since Sunday morning. He is not going to tell the press his game plan. I don't have any idea if he is sitting back waiting or is very active on several players. And I don't expect to know for a while.

Just because the Yankees and Red Sox declare their intentions and the O's don't doesn't mean the O's are sitting on their thumbs or that they are burning up the phones. It means we don't know what's happening with the O's.

If it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, then its probably a duck.

Past history has shown that MacPhail is not quick to make moves. If you want to believe that is changing for some reason, more power to ya. I HOPE you are right.

[TinCup]

It's so telling that year after year after year this same debate plays out on OH. The same complaints as to the slow actions of our FO (many of which are valid in my view) and the same 'defenses" and "rationalizations" of this glacially slow activity to improve the team. The same debate on an annual basis.

What's that tell ya? As much as things change, they don't!

[wildcard]

If it looks like a duck, and it sounds like a duck, then its probably a duck.

Past history has shown that MacPhail is not quick to make moves. If you want to believe that is changing for some reason, more power to ya. I HOPE you are right.

I don't know what MacPhail is doing. He has said all along he is going to "Buy the Bats". It would not be a change in philosophy if he did. It would be completely in line with past history if he waited. It could go either way. There is no way to know. And that is how he wants it.

[Frobby]

You are completely missing the point. The irritation is not with the fact that we are not going hard after Werth and Lee. The irritation is the fact that once again it appears the Orioles FO is sitting back, letting the market set itself, and not being aggresive in our pursuit of filling the AT LEAST three major holes on this team.

Meanwhile, here is what the Yankees have done:

The Yankees called Cliff Lee's agent Sunday on the first day of the free-agent negotiating period to say they will be back in touch with an offer

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_contact_lee_agent_report_H0XtrQA6oyPAhf9N34rksO#ixzz14n39dsTd

Wow, that's bold.

Look, there is a difference between the way you handle free agents who are certain to be offered arbitration, and those who aren't. If the player is Type A and you aren't sure if he'll be offered arbitration or not, you wait and find out, because that affects the overall cost of the player. There's no point in waiting on Lee, everyone knows he'll be offered arbitration.

[Dipper9]

Meanwhile, here is what the Yankees have done:

http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/yankees_contact_lee_agent_report_H0XtrQA6oyPAhf9N34rksO#ixzz14n39dsTd

Wow, that's bold.

Look, there is a difference between the way you handle free agents who are certain to be offered arbitration, and those who aren't. If the player is Type A and you aren't sure if he'll be offered arbitration or not, you wait and find out, because that affects the overall cost of the player. There's no point in waiting on Lee, everyone knows he'll be offered arbitration.

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or making fun of me? :scratchchinhmm:

I'm not saying the Yankees move was BOLD, per se. What I am saying is the difference in our organizations is striking. The Yankees make it known on DAY 1 that the reports of their interest in a player are real and they will be making an offer very soon. The Orioles call an agent and say "here's a lowball offer, call us back if you're interested and we MAY be able to go a little higher." That is another reason why we are losers and the Yankees are winners.

[Mad Mark]

I'm not sure if you're agreeing with me or making fun of me? :scratchchinhmm:

I'm not saying the Yankees move was BOLD, per se. What I am saying is the difference in our organizations is striking. The Yankees make it known on DAY 1 that the reports of their interest in a player are real and they will be making an offer very soon. The Orioles call an agent and say "here's a lowball offer, call us back if you're interested and we MAY be able to go a little higher." That is another reason why we are losers and the Yankees are winners.

The difference in the organizations is striking, in part because the Yankee$ have the resources to outbid every other team in MLB for any player they want. Period. End of story. If the Yankee$ want Cliff Lee, and Lee's determined to go to the highest bidder, why waste your time even talking to the guy? And if having his wife get spat on in New Yankee Cash Cow Stadium (Design by Albert Speer) isn't enough to deter Lee from signing there, what is???

Have people really forgotten that the Orioles got Tejada the first time around mostly because the Yankee$ weren't interested???

The Orioles have the resources to make maybe one big splash this offseason, while the Yankee$ can do nine or ten cannonballs a day in the FA pool. Do you really want the Orioles to telegraph their one punch? Really?

[Dipper9]

The difference in the organizations is striking, in part because the Yankee$ have the resources to outbid every other team in MLB for any player they want. Period. End of story. If the Yankee$ want Cliff Lee, and Lee's determined to go to the highest bidder, why waste your time even talking to the guy? And if having his wife get spat on in New Yankee Cash Cow Stadium (Design by Albert Speer) isn't enough to deter Lee from signing there, what is???

Have people really forgotten that the Orioles got Tejada the first time around mostly because the Yankee$ weren't interested???

The Orioles have the resources to make maybe one big splash this offseason, while the Yankee$ can do nine or ten cannonballs a day in the FA pool. Do you really want the Orioles to telegraph their one punch? Really?

No. I don't want them to tell ME anything.

What I WANT is a real first baseman, a real third baseman, a REAL cleanup hitter, and shortstop who can hit his weight. I WANT the Front Office to act like building the team and filling the holes is a priority, not an afterthought. I want players to come in here who will help make us a winner, not players that will be stop gaps while we wait for the "supposed" prospects to make it. What I WANT is for the Orioles to act like a professional organization, rather than the laughing stock we have been for a decade, before 2 months of Bucky Ball has some feeling giddy again.

I don't think what I am asking for is too much. I don't need to know about moves before they happen, and MacPhail should absolutely not be tipping his hand to anyone, but I just wonder how many more seasons we have to enter April with a team we KNOW cannot compete before fans will stop giving this organization the benefit of the doubt?????