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Heyman: Orioles being aggressive


Moose Milligan

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My question was what was the point of asking posters if MacPhail was following up. Not like we have a clue. I said I think he is. You said, unexpectedly, that you think he isn't. You tell me I am naive. What is the point?

To belabor an opinion based on nothing.

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Frobby wins the thread, once again.

Yep, it's nice that some people can be reasonable rather than have extreme opinions on one side or the other.

As he says, it's the results that matter. Not flights, or making the first offer, or wining and dining, or whatever. And those things ultimately don't make nearly the impact as some seem to think. The O's don't typically get major free agents because they don't offer enough money, it's as simple as that.

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Yes, when I say they don't offer enough money, I mean given their situation, meaning they typically have to offer more than a good team would.

This is why I'm not surprised MacPhail hasn't signed any marquee free agents, combined with the fact that a losing team gets less value out of a free agent than a winning one, since the added wins are worth less. So you have to pay more to get less.

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I have been questioned on why I am so down on MacPhail the past week? MacPhail has been here for three and a half years, and yet one quick look at the main board tells you the hole we are in right now...

1. The CBS power rankings are out, and although they are meaningless when you get right to it, they show the Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, and Blue Jays ALL in the top 9 teams in all of baseball. The Orioles reside at number 19. This is the division in which we play.

2. There are threads discussing signing a veteran pitcher. Names such as Garland, Lowe, and some Japanese pitchers are commonplace, along with some long shot trade ideas like Zack Greinke. Whether we NEEd a veteran starter or not, its evident that many on the Hangout do not feel we should go into the season with 5 young pitchers and no TOR ace.

3. There are threads discussing the need for a power hitting first baseman. The free agent names being thrown around are all solid choices, but none of them are game changers. The guys being discussed in trades, like Gonzo and Fiedler, would cost too much in players returned and would likely not resign long term here. Regardless of which first base option you prefer, the fact that we NEED a first baseman is not arguable.

4. There are threads discussing third base. The main options being thrown around are signing Beltre, unlikely, or trading for Reynolds. Once again, regardless of your preference, we can all agree that Ty Wigginton or Josh Bell should NOT be the starting third baseman next year.

5. There are numerous threads discussing shortstops, and most involved trades. We ALL agree that anyone would be better than Cesar, but is that the easy, safe signing that MacPhail is leaning towards???

6. There are threads discussing the left field battle. Neither Pie nor Reimold has done anything to earn the starting gig full time. Scott has been primarily used as our DH for the past few years. Most feel we are not in the running for Crawford nor Werth. So who plays left field? Is this a priority, or will MacPhail let Pie, Reimold, Scott, Patterson maybe, battle in out in spring training?

7. There are tons of threads discussing power in the middle of the order. There are options galore out there to improve in this area, but who MacPhail goes after and whether he goes for the right guys is debateable.

What am I getting at here? While many of you have accused me of being pessimistic, we are heading into year four of the MacPhail Era and we still have questions about first base, shortstop, third base, left field, cleanup hitter, closer, and top of the rotation pitching. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. This doesn't even take into account the minor league system, our lack of international scouting, etc etc etc.

Three and a half years in and its VERY debatable whether we are any better off now than we were in the summer of 2007. You can say MacPhail has made improvements, but so have the rest of the teams in our division. The Blue Jays just went through a rebuild that lasted less than a year. We are on year 13, and year 4 of the MacPhail Era.

In the words of the immortal Owen Hart (may he rest in peace)...

"Enough is enough, and its time for a change!"

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I have been questioned on why I am so down on MacPhail the past week? MacPhail has been here for three and a half years, and yet one quick look at the main board tells you the hole we are in right now...

1. The CBS power rankings are out, and although they are meaningless when you get right to it, they show the Red Sox, Yankees, Rays, and Blue Jays ALL in the top 9 teams in all of baseball. The Orioles reside at number 19. This is the division in which we play.

2. There are threads discussing signing a veteran pitcher. Names such as Garland, Lowe, and some Japanese pitchers are commonplace, along with some long shot trade ideas like Zack Greinke. Whether we NEEd a veteran starter or not, its evident that many on the Hangout do not feel we should go into the season with 5 young pitchers and no TOR ace.

3. There are threads discussing the need for a power hitting first baseman. The free agent names being thrown around are all solid choices, but none of them are game changers. The guys being discussed in trades, like Gonzo and Fiedler, would cost too much in players returned and would likely not resign long term here. Regardless of which first base option you prefer, the fact that we NEED a first baseman is not arguable.

4. There are threads discussing third base. The main options being thrown around are signing Beltre, unlikely, or trading for Reynolds. Once again, regardless of your preference, we can all agree that Ty Wigginton or Josh Bell should NOT be the starting third baseman next year.

5. There are numerous threads discussing shortstops, and most involved trades. We ALL agree that anyone would be better than Cesar, but is that the easy, safe signing that MacPhail is leaning towards???

6. There are threads discussing the left field battle. Neither Pie nor Reimold has done anything to earn the starting gig full time. Scott has been primarily used as our DH for the past few years. Most feel we are not in the running for Crawford nor Werth. So who plays left field? Is this a priority, or will MacPhail let Pie, Reimold, Scott, Patterson maybe, battle in out in spring training?

7. There are tons of threads discussing power in the middle of the order. There are options galore out there to improve in this area, but who MacPhail goes after and whether he goes for the right guys is debateable.

What am I getting at here? While many of you have accused me of being pessimistic, we are heading into year four of the MacPhail Era and we still have questions about first base, shortstop, third base, left field, cleanup hitter, closer, and top of the rotation pitching. And that's just the tip of the iceberg. This doesn't even take into account the minor league system, our lack of international scouting, etc etc etc.

Three and a half years in and its VERY debatable whether we are any better off now than we were in the summer of 2007. You can say MacPhail has made improvements, but so have the rest of the teams in our division. The Blue Jays just went through a rebuild that lasted less than a year. We are on year 13, and year 4 of the MacPhail Era.

In the words of the immortal Owen Hart (may he rest in peace)...

"Enough is enough, and its time for a change!"

Is this the start of your fire McPhail campaign?:eek:

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So what is this whole tirade about how we're not aggressive enough with free agents? Everyone has been saying that we shouldn't be too aggressive, that it's sometimes good to let the market settle, etc., etc., and you come back with the same old spiel. Don't make me go back in this very thread and find quotes where you advocate, in general terms with none of the caveats you just crowbarred in, aggressively pursuing and spending on free agents.

The silence is deafening, and disappointing.

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Three and a half years in and its VERY debatable whether we are any better off now than we were in the summer of 2007. You can say MacPhail has made improvements, but so have the rest of the teams in our division. The Blue Jays just went through a rebuild that lasted less than a year. We are on year 13, and year 4 of the MacPhail Era.

In the words of the immortal Owen Hart (may he rest in peace)...

"Enough is enough, and its time for a change!"

In my opinion we are far better off than in the summer of 2007. I do not know if MacPhail can finish the job or not, but in my opinion he deserves the chance to show what he can do this offseason and what results we get in 2011. Moreover, this is kind of academic, because MacPhail clearly is going to be our GM this offseason, so why even discuss the point?

The Blue Jays didn't require the kind of rebuild the Orioles did. They won 75 games in 2009, after three consecutive winning seasons. That is in no way comparable to the mess the Orioles were in when MacPhail took over. If you think the O's could have been turned into a winning team in 1-2 years, you are mistaken.

For the record, (1) I'm not happy with everything MacPhail has done, and (2) I don't believe the O's will find fully satisfactory solutions to all of their problems this offseason. But I think we have the core of a good young team in place, and that MacPhail should be able to do enough this offseason for us to have a very good shot at a winning record in 2011 and be in good position to keep improving.

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I've been scanning sites on the internet all day looking for a mention of the Orioles involvement with anyone. Barely a mention....or....nothing!

I'm starting to wonder if Heyman forgot to mention that MacPhail was being aggressive in some cave in Afghanistan?

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I've been scanning sites on the internet all day looking for a mention of the Orioles involvement with anyone. Barely a mention....or....nothing!

I'm starting to wonder if Heyman forgot to mention that MacPhail was being aggressive in some cave in Afghanistan?

God I hate this time of year.

Let's tell the truth: almost nothing definitive is going to happen for a while. The deadline for teams to offer arbitration to their former players who are free agents doesn't arrive until December 1, and the winter meetings aren't until December 7-10. There may be some discussions before then with Type B FA's or a few Type A's who are obviously going to be offered arbitration, but I'd be surprised if more than a handful of deals happen throughout MLB before December 1. But I'm sure I'm going to read dozens of posts like the one above on a daily basis between now and then.

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