The "they don't want to come here" excuse

[TiredofLosing20]

A couple of points:

I think people know how I feel about the Tex situation.

This may be the understatement of all understatements

There is a winning attitude here as the culture of losing seems to be finally history

If two months of winning were enough to make the 12 years of culture of losing "history" then to me that greatly devalues the whole notion of culture of losing in the first place. (I am not a big believer in culture of losing in the context that you are)

Trea, (welcome back by the way) I think most of us agree at this point that this offseason is the time to be bold. I am all for going aggressively at some of these guys but the reality of it is that some guys for varying reasons do not want to come to Baltimore. If we get an indication that they are not interested in coming here and that we would have to substantially overpay then we should go a different direction. Beltre has clearly let it be known that he wants to go to the West Coast, he also has indicated he wants to play for a winner. Strike 1 and Strike 2. I guess I am not against throwing a big number out there at him but the last thing we want to be is the empty crab in Boras's version of the Find the Ball game.

[mikezpen]

The Orioles could help drive up the bidding. Why should a player openly say he doesn't want to come here?

[Hank Scorpio]

The Orioles haven't met their scouting department, international signing department, or even drafting department yet...

Their accounting departments may have met though. But the accounting department didn't share that you can't just be cheap - you actually have to spend money in some areas.

I'm refuting the argument that you have to spend $100MM+ to win in this division.

That is simply not true.

[Going Underground]

If the O's sign Pena,Beltre and Garland,alot of people would still be unhappy.

[JTrea81]

I'm refuting the argument that you have to spend $100MM+ to win in this division.

That is simply not true.

You do to win and sustain winning for the most part.

Every now and then you'll have a down year from the Sox and Yankees but for the most part, those two teams are a talent vaccum and unless you decide to join the vaccuming, all you'll wind up with is the leftover guys that get stuck in the carpet.

[Sports Guy]

If the O's sign Pena,Beltre and Garland,alot of people would still be unhappy.

Depends on the contracts for them and what else they do.

For example, do they use Tillman to get Rasmus, forcing them to sign a vet starter? If so, that helps.

[Going Underground]

Depends on the contracts for them and what else they do.

For example, do they use Tillman to get Rasmus, forcing them to sign a vet starter? If so, that helps.

I don't see Rasmus coming to the O's. Perhaps a player like Willingham or someone like him.

[TGO]

I don't see Rasmus coming to the O's. Perhaps a player like Willingham or someone like him.

Willingham would be a great get, obviously depending on what the Nats want. I don't see them trading him, though, especially not to us.

[Hank Scorpio]

You do to win and sustain winning for the most part.

Every now and then you'll have a down year from the Sox and Yankees but for the most part, those two teams are a talent vaccum and unless you decide to join the vaccuming, all you'll wind up with is the leftover guys that get stuck in the carpet.

LOL you sound so sure of your position...

Tampa has won the division twice in the last three years. That means they were better than the Yankees and the Red Sox over the course of 162. The point is it's POSSIBLE. It's been done. It can be done.

[JTrea81]

Depends on the contracts for them and what else they do.

For example, do they use Tillman to get Rasmus, forcing them to sign a vet starter? If so, that helps.

It looks like the Cards are keeping Rasmus.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/los-angeles-dodgers-st-louis-cardinals-ken-rosenthal-jon-paul-morosi-111510

Now if you are talking Justin Upton...

[JTrea81]

LOL you sound so sure of your position...

Tampa has won the division twice in the last three years. That means they were better than the Yankees and the Red Sox over the course of 162. The point is it's POSSIBLE. It's been done. It can be done.

Will they do it again this year? Probably not because they are losing a ton of what got them there. 5-6 wins go with Crawford alone. That's the difference between playoffs and no playoffs.

And again Tampa had to endure 10 seasons of losing to do it to first develop their system and then grow their players to keep the payroll cheap.

Are you willing to wait that long? We have about 6 more years to go in that timeframe...

The Orioles as constructed with the talent they have now internally cannot make the playoffs without having the payroll exceed $100 million IMO. They simply need too much talent that will be expensive to get there.

[Sports Guy]

Will they do it again this year? Probably not because they are losing a ton of what got them there. 5-6 wins go with Crawford alone. That's the difference between playoffs and no playoffs.

And again Tampa had to endure 10 seasons of losing to do it to first develop their system and then grow their players to keep the payroll cheap.

Are you willing to wait that long? We have about 6 more years to go in that timeframe...

The Orioles as constructed with the talent they have now internally cannot make the playoffs without having the payroll exceed $100 million IMO. They simply need too much talent that will be expensive to get there.

You are just really wrong on how to successfully build an organization.

[LookinUp]

Will they do it again this year? Probably not because they are losing a ton of what got them there. 5-6 wins go with Crawford alone. That's the difference between playoffs and no playoffs.

They have a few stud prospects coming up this year (at least 2). Don't write them off.

[Sports Guy]

They have a few stud prospects coming up this year (at least 2). Don't write them off.

And they will have very good starting pitching and could use one of the starters they do have to get another cheap, young offensive players.

[JTrea81]

You are just really wrong on how to successfully build an organization.

Look at how the Orioles are constructed and what little talent they have in the minors that's close to contributing.

They are going to have to go outside the organization for talent and they are going to need some of the best talent in baseball to compete with the other teams in the division.

They don't have enough trade chips to get that talent so they are going to have to spend in FA as well.

It's not a great way to build an organization, you are correct, but it's the only option available to the Orioles to win right now which is why Showalter is here. This team needs to win before they can worry about sustaining the winning.

Sign or trade for premium guys now with the resources you do have and ramp up the payroll temporarily while you develop your farm system so it can produce adequate replacements for the talent you currently have. Then maybe you can trade some of those players if their replacements are ready sooner, or just wait out their contracts and then have the replacement take over, or you can re-sign that talent, but at least you have options unlike the Orioles have now.