BP's Kevin Goldstein ranks the Orioles top 20

[Frobby]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12459

Goldstein says that, due to the many graduations, our system is "one of the thinnest in the game." Also:

The Orioles have the young talent to turn into a winning club for the first time since 1997, but right now the system seems unable to turn them into true playoff contenders in baseball's toughest division.

[Arthur_Bryant]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12459

Goldstein says that, due to the many graduations, our system is "one of the thinnest in the game." Also:

Notable in bold:

Two-Star Prospects

7. Ryan Adams, 2B

8. Joe Mahoney, 1B

9. Connor Narron, SS

10. Parker Bridwell, RHP

11. Mychal Givens, SS

EDIT: Projects Machado's arrival at late 2013. Britton: "He may be an All-Star level starter, with one scout calling him a left-handed version of Brandon Webb."

[hoosiers]

Good stuff. Seems to diverge from Tony's list on Givens and Berry, but also offers nice praise for Bundy, Narron, Bridwell, Givens and several others, IMO.

Our system could really at least one of Bridwell, Coffey, Hobgood and Bundy emerging in Britton-like fashion next season.

[brotherlo38]

On Klein:

Klein doesn't have the stuff to profile as a late-innings reliever.

[Tony-OH]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12459

Goldstein says that, due to the many graduations, our system is "one of the thinnest in the game." Also:

Looks pretty solid too me although we obviously have a differing opinion on a few guys. I'm not sure where he gets some of comments about speed (Given's is a below average and Mahoney is a tick above average) and I'm not sure how he can mention Waring, Beato and Pelzer without mentioning Townsend and Angle at the very least.

I don't know how he comes up with star designators, but I obviously would have Givens in the three star category and possibly Bridwell, although since he's new I can understand him being held back a bit.

The Narron pick is a bit of a head scratcher for me since he's got a lot of work ahead of him on that swing. It's very, very long and considering his lack of success against pro pitching after following up a senior year in which he hit under .300 in high school still has me scratching my head how he gets on a top 20 list. He has some tools, but he's pretty raw.

[Arthur_Bryant]

On Klein:

Klein doesn't have the stuff to profile as a late-innings reliever.

Kind of a dumb comment IMO.

If you have the stuff to get hitters out in the sixth inning, you have the stuff to get them out in the eighth or ninth.

[Frobby]

Looks pretty solid too me although we obviously have a differing opinion on a few guys. I'm not sure where he gets some of comments about speed (Given's is a below average and Mahoney is a tick above average) and I'm not sure how he can mention Waring, Beato and Pelzer without mentioning Townsend and Angle at the very least.

I don't know how he comes up with star designators, but I obviously would have Givens in the three star category and possibly Bridwell, although since he's new I can understand him being held back a bit.

The Narron pick is a bit of a head scratcher for me since he's got a lot of work ahead of him on that swing. It's very, very long and considering his lack of success against pro pitching after following up a senior year in which he hit under .300 in high school still has me scratching my head how he gets on a top 20 list. He has some tools, but he's pretty raw.

I found the following Goldstein comments to be interesting:

- Britton's change-up is a "plus pitch" while the slider is "average."

- Hoes is "still quite rough" at 2B

- Klein has "little projection"

- Scouts concerned about Adams' "lack of physicality or athleticism." That really surprised me, I thought Adams was a very good HS athlete.

- Givens has "good defensive skills." I thought there were some questions there.

[flashjordnk]

Kind of a dumb comment IMO.

If you have the stuff to get hitters out in the sixth inning, you have the stuff to get them out in the eighth or ninth.

I this is more about opportunity. If you have Guy A who has a 2.00 ERA/1.05 WHIP, a guy with 3.00 ERA/1.10 WHIP and a guy with a 4.00 ERA/1.15 WHIP and they are your bullpen options Guy C will be in the 7th inning more likely than Guy A.

I think that's how he means it. Maybe in a game an out in the sixth might mean as much as one in the ninth, but from a talent assessment vs in game management standpoint I don't have objections to how he proposes this.

[Stotle]

Kind of a dumb comment IMO.

If you have the stuff to get hitters out in the sixth inning, you have the stuff to get them out in the eighth or ninth.

Maybe he is using late-inning solely as a reference to "closer", which the industry still generally views as a high-velocity arm? Also, I've heard great things about Goldstein's prospect coverage, but his draft coverage is lacking (from what I've heard and seen myself). I'd take anything relating to new draftees with a grain of salt -- Narron being the obvious example.

[RVAbird]

http://www.baseballprospectus.com/article.php?articleid=12459

Goldstein says that, due to the many graduations, our system is "one of the thinnest in the game." Also:

Thanks. I like KG, he's a funny guy with some good insights. Of course, some people on this board pay closer attention to our specific system than he, but I think he does a pretty good job at getting consensus profiles league wide.

Here are some notes of mine:

It's good to see Hoes getting national recognition. I didn't expect him to be ranked quite so high.

• I still can't bring myself to put Adams on the top 10 list. He has no real position and only an average ML bat. It was great to see him take a step forward in the power department, but he's got a lot to prove next year.

• I obviously think they are low on Berry. Lack of velocity limits his ceiling but I think the command, secondaries and pitchability cement him as a starter.

• I was not impressed with Narron's debut. I still think he's got a lot of potential but I'd be uncomfortable placing him so high so soon. He's a wait and see kind of guy.

• I really need to get off my butt and go see Schoop play next year. Tony was talking him up early in his season and I was skeptical. It seems he was right on the money according to many scouts. I'm excited to see him in action.

[Tony-OH]

I found the following Goldstein comments to be interesting:

- Britton's change-up is a "plus pitch" while the slider is "average."

- Hoes is "still quite rough" at 2B

- Klein has "little projection"

- Scouts concerned about Adams' "lack of physicality or athleticism." That really surprised me, I thought Adams was a very good HS athlete.

- Givens has "good defensive skills." I thought there were some questions there.

Well, I'm sure someone he talked to gave him all of those comments. Like any of the national guys, they have a hard job trying to do these lists for every organization. I know how hard it is to do just one accurately so I can't imagine trying to get all the nuances down for every system.

On the whole his comments look pretty accurate and although we can always argue over a few calls here and there, for the most part it's a pretty solid list.

[RVAbird]

Well, I'm sure someone he talked to gave him all of those comments. Like any of the national guys, they have a hard job trying to do these lists for every organization. I know how hard it is to do just one accurately so I can't imagine trying to get all the nuances down for every system.

On the whole his comments look pretty accurate and although we can always argue over a few calls here and there, for the most part it's a pretty solid list.

Yep, that's basically how I feel.

These guys have to deal with a ton of guff from die-hards who think they have the definitive viewpoint on their favorite teams, and still, at the end of the day, the BP and BA lists are the go-to sources for discussion points and trade discussions on every message board.

They do a good job at a daunting task.

[Arthur_Bryant]

Maybe he is using late-inning solely as a reference to "closer", which the industry still generally views as a high-velocity arm? Also, I've heard great things about Goldstein's prospect coverage, but his draft coverage is lacking (from what I've heard and seen myself). I'd take anything relating to new draftees with a grain of salt -- Narron being the obvious example.

I'm sure that this is it. I just don't agree with the perception. In a way, this view has developed inside-out; pitchers with three or four good pitches, who know how to use them, usually stay in the rotation, while guys with good velocity but lacking depth in the repertoire often get shuttled into late inning work, and sometimes closing, where they often pick up a couple of MPH.

This doesn't mean that closers have to be high-velocity arms; it just works out that way, and after a while people assume it's the only way.

[Guest rochester]

Good stuff but too tough on a national guy... Tony and some good folks here is where I get my "as accurate as can be" info. This is not a slight at Goldstein..

[QBsILLEST1]

So, what should we take from the comments on the changeup? I mean, I have seen the BA league top 20 write ups with one saying the changeup and slider were on the same level. The slider I saw him throw 1 time in the futures game was what I'd consider plus. Now, we see KG say the changeup is plus and the slider is average. There is no way that the slider is "average". IMO he is mixing up the secondaries which is pretty easy to do for 1 guy out of a top 20 out of 30 teams......

I just have a hard time justifying to myself what I should believe as far as what he is saying here about Britton. I can't discount one thing and then believe the very next statement. Only thing I know is that the slider he threw in the Future's Game was a plus pitch which at the very least would mean he "flashes" a plus slider.......So I dunno.....