My letter to Andy MacPhail (re: Millar)

[osfan83]

I also love the not-so-subtle connotation that since the majority of people are upset about it (which is debatable anyway), it must be worthwhile. The fact that the majority of the public feels one way about an issue has almost nothing to do with whether the opinion is valid/morally correct or not. Slavery, abortion, earth is flat, sun goes around the earth, earth center of the universe, Iraq war, etc.... I could go on and on and on.

Validity, morality, and popular opinion may be the same, but one doesn't have a thing to do with the other.

BTW, I'm not saying the people that are upset are "wrong". I actually don't believe there is a right or wrong way to take this situation. However, there is a right way to take whatever feelings you have and act on them IMHO. I am saying that some of the reactions are over-the-top. I'm also saying that however anyone feels about this, there are much bigger Orioles' issues to be worried about.

When it comes to marketing it does. You can be right all you want, but if the people you are marketing to think you are wrong, then you will have a harder time sellingthem what you are trying to sell.

New Coke may have very well tasted better that old Coke..but the people who mattered didn't think so.

[JTrea81]

I'm also saying that however anyone feels about this, there are much bigger Orioles' issues to be worried about.

What bigger issue is there than team pride? Pride is something that Trembley is trying to get the Oriole players to have. It's the reason that the fans are no longer coming to the ballpark. Why should fans have pride in their team when the Orioles players don't even have pride in their team. Millar jumping at the chance to associate himself with RSN because this team wasn't in the playoffs even though he was still under contract to this team is a huge example of not having team pride. He would rather participate in a publicity stunt to get some Red Sox Nation love than to say "no I work for the Orioles and it wouldn't be right." And that's all that "ceremony" was - a publicity stunt. That's not being much of a team leader, at least for the Orioles anyway...

If I'm Trembley I tell MacPhail to find a new team for Millar because he won't be welcome in my clubhouse...

[Spoonless]

What bigger issue is there than team pride? Pride is something that Trembley is trying to get the Oriole players to have. It's the reason that the fans are no longer coming to the ballpark. Why should fans have pride in their team when the Orioles players don't even have pride in their team. Millar jumping at the chance to associate himself with RSN because this team wasn't in the playoffs even though he was still under contract to this team is a huge example of not having team pride. He would rather participate in a publicity stunt than to say "no I work for the Orioles and it wouldn't be right." And that's all that ceremony was - a publicity stunt. That's not being much of a team leader, at least for the Orioles anyway...

If I'm Trembley I tell MacPhail to find a new team for Millar because he won't be welcome in my clubhouse...

Winning begets pride. You can preach "team pride" all you want, but if you get a bunch of guys that'll go out there and win a bunch of games, you won't have to preach it.

[PoorMike]

Looks like 66-70-83-?? and osfan83 agree on this.

What the fans think is paramount, even if it's just 10% of fans, especially when it comes to something that's more image related and not a tangible personel move.

That's why people like Palmer and Roch are the wrong ones to ask about this. I respect their views, but they aren't fans in the truest sense.

[osfan83]

Winning begets pride. You can preach "team pride" all you want, but if you get a bunch of guys that'll go out there and win a bunch of games, you won't have to preach it.

Then why is there so much love in Chicago for the Cubs? The Cubs are head and shoulders above the White Sox in that town...but who's had more success overthe past 10 years or so?

[mojmann]

This is why I'm a little bothered/surprised that Selig didn't prevent this from happening.

It wasn't THAT long ago that players would be fined for even having a conversation with someone in the other uniform during batting practice. They called it the non-fraternization clause, and it was designed to protect the integrity of the competition.

The precedent set last evening strikes me as worse than a couple guys yakking it up about groupies, cars or whatever around the batting cage.

Yes! A lot of people forget that there was indeed a non-fraternization clause.

I heard Buck Martinez say on his XM show that -- 30 years ago -- players never got near the other dugout. You'd get yelled at and maybe have your shoes spit upon. Even if they liked one another personally, they understood that you are at the highest level of competition in a major sport.

That wall got torn down gradually during the three decades of free agency.

Clearly, this incident shows the non-fraternization rule should still be on the books. And enforced.

[Dipper9]

Golly! The "Orioles" actually wrote back this afternoon. I'm impressed by the quick response (others must be doing the same thing), even if it doesn't exactly quiet all my concerns.

Here's the response:

Thank you for taking the time to contact the Orioles.

As a way of commemorating the Red Sox’ 2004 World Championship, Boston is acknowledging several "Heroes of '04" during first-pitch ceremonies. In addition to Kevin Millar, the Dodgers' special assistant/hitting coach Bill Mueller threw out the first pitch in Game 6 and Giants’ outfielder Dave Roberts is scheduled to throw out the first pitch during the World Series. Boston officials have called other clubs, including the Orioles, to ask permission to use those heroes now under contract with other teams for their special celebrations. The Red Sox asked for and received permission from the Orioles for Kevin to throw out the first pitch before Sunday's Game 7. In addition, Kevin personally checked with Orioles officials to ensure that he was allowed to partake in this special event.

We cannot forget that Kevin Millar was in a lot of ways the heart and soul of that World Series champion Red Sox team back in 2004. Kevin was in Boston as an Oriole, but also as a guest of the Red Sox and as a former Red Sox player. We all must understand his special history with Boston. He was asked to do this by the Red Sox and considered it an honor, and all appropriate requests were made to obtain club permission, which was granted. We would never question Kevin’s loyalty to Baltimore or to the Orioles, and we also would never begrudge Kevin, the Red Sox organization or their fans with this unique opportunity. If the shoe were on the other foot, we would certainly hope, and would expect, that the Red Sox would comply with a similar request made by the Orioles.

We appreciate your loyalty and support for the Orioles. We look forward to seeing you at Camden Yards in 2008.

Sincerely,

XXXXXXXXXX

Communications Assistant

Baltimore Orioles

I am on the side of not thinking this is a big deal, whikle I appreciated both the letter AND the email you guys sent. That said, anybody who finds anything offensive about the Orioles' response must just have blinders on and not want to see thngs from any perspective but their own. The Orioles' response was to the point, and addressed this the way myself and others have said...that Millar did NOT do this to disrespect the Orioles or us fans in any way, shape, or form!

[Spoonless]

Then why is there so much love in Chicago for the Cubs? The Cubs are head and shoulders above the White Sox in that town...but who's had more success overthe past 10 years or so?

Huh? I was talking about team pride, talking about the players. And don't the Cubs have a couple playoff appearances in the last 10 years, anyway? A few winning seasons, too?

Going back the last 10 seasons (including this one), the Cubs have 5 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons, with 3 playoff appearances. I'm sure if the Orioles had that, there'd be a heck of a lot more Orioles fans left.

[Spoonless]

Clearly, this incident shows the non-fraternization rule should still be on the books. And enforced.

Or it clearly shows that people need to stop living in the "30 years ago" era and stop trying to apply the way things were back then on today's game.

[Dipper9]

Have to agree with JTrea here. Don't know that there would be reciprocity here. The letter back from the Orioles seems to cite reciprocity/ mutual respect as a reason why we allowed Millar to do this, but we have no proof that this reciprcity even exists. Further I don't know that we even need to build up credibility with a team that we will not be trading with, with a team whose players insult our own, and with a team that to a man/woman (and maybe rightly so) believes they are better than we are.

I want to know what Millar says to Daniel Cabrera, who earlier this year was verbally bashed by Pedroia. What happens when Daniel asks whose back he's got.

You mean after CaBBreara went head hunting for no reason at all? I would suspect he would say, "Hey Danny baby...that is a man with a family and bills to pay. How about having a little respect for the game and NOT throwing a missile at his head!"

[JTrea81]

I am on the side of not thinking this is a big deal, whikle I appreciated both the letter AND the email you guys sent. That said, anybody who finds anything offensive about the Orioles' response must just have blinders on and not want to see thngs from any perspective but their own. The Orioles' response was to the point, and addressed this the way myself and others have said...that Millar did NOT do this to disrespect the Orioles or us fans in any way, shape, or form!

How about this last whole paragraph:

We all must understand his special history with Boston. He was asked to do this by the Red Sox and considered it an honor, and all appropriate requests were made to obtain club permission, which was granted. We would never question Kevin’s loyalty to Baltimore or to the Orioles, and we also would never begrudge Kevin, the Red Sox organization or their fans with this unique opportunity. If the shoe were on the other foot, we would certainly hope, and would expect, that the Red Sox would comply with a similar request made by the Orioles.

Why would we never begrudge the Sox and especially their fans anything, let alone an appearance by one of our players for a publicity stunt, and that's what it was. They are our rival, even though they own us, they are still our rival and we shouldn't be aiding them in anything they do. This is the same team that showboats and says that our players "suck." And the Red Sox would never allow one of their players to come back and make an appearance for the Orioles. That's a joke!

This organization was snowballed, and that's the best damage control they could come up with? That letter just pissed me off more...

[Dipper9]

This looks like a form letter response. The Orioles probably have gotten a lot of the same complaints and whoever this communications assistant is was asked to draft a response that is now being sent to everyone who complains. Which is cool in a way. They didn't have to respond at all. But it's not like Andy MacPhail personally wrote out a personalized response in calligraphy or something.

I know what you're saying, but you've got to be kidding me if there are actually people out there that expect the Orioles to personally respond to EVERY letter, email, and phone call they receive?

[osfan83]

Huh? I was talking about team pride, talking about the players. And don't the Cubs have a couple playoff appearances in the last 10 years, anyway? A few winning seasons, too?

Going back the last 10 seasons (including this one), the Cubs have 5 winning seasons and 5 losing seasons, with 3 playoff appearances. I'm sure if the Orioles had that, there'd be a heck of a lot more Orioles fans left.

Even during times whet the Cubs had many losing seasons in a row...there was still more team pride for the Cubs thanthe White Sox in Chicago. Sure winning helps, but a town can still have great pride in it's team even if they are losing.

My point..regardless of W/L's the Orioles organization and their players should have team/city pride, in the hopes that some of that rubs off on the fans. Because of the losing, the O's front office should be MORE sensitive to things that might upset the fan base.

Clearly you can't argue that some significate portion of the fan base was bothered by this stunt, and this might result in less merchandise or tickets sold. The team should have been much smarter about this.

[Dipper9]

This has really pissed some of you off...There are 3 threads going right now and they have a total of almost 700 replies in them.

Must be the slow part of the season/offseason.

And everyone is making the exact same points in each of the three threads!

[Spoonless]

Clearly you can't argue that some significate portion of the fan base was bothered by this stunt, and this might result in less merchandise or tickets sold. The team should have been much smarter about this.

I never argued that.

I was responding to what JTrea said. Mainly:

What bigger issue is there than team pride? Pride is something that Trembley is trying to get the Oriole players to have. It's the reason that the fans are no longer coming to the ballpark.

I was saying that if you field a winning product, the players are going to have pride, and fans are going to come to the ballpark. We don't even have the "lovable losers" thing going for us. We're just pathetic at this point. Even if you had all these guys showing pride and "standing up to the Red Sox," I doubt it's going to bring many more people out to the park at this point. People want to see a competitive team.

I've already said that I think the FO should have been able to see that this would upset many fans, and should have said "no" to it. Obviously you don't want to lose any more fans than you've already lost.