O's not offering Koji arbitration

[JTrea81]

There's no reason to defend this.

It's just pure stupidity. This was a win-win situation here and the Orioles somehow found a way to lose.

[clapdiddy]

Really? how could this anger Koji and other japanese players?

That makes no sense.

Here is your explanation..the Orioles are stupid. That is the explanation.

Why do we have to continue to find some kind of motive here? How about the motive is they are just not a smart team?

Yup.

No. sense. whatsoever.

[VeveJones007]

Paying top dollar (at $5-6 million, Koji would be near the top of the food chain for set-up/middle reliever) for a product that will be unreliable at best is not a sound investment. Especially when we can probably land a similar pitcher -only one who pitches the whole season, for the same money.

If you paid for a Caddy, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and it spent 10-15 percent of the year -roughly a month- in the shop, and then had a stipulation that you couldn't drive it two days in a row you wouldn't say, "my, this was a sound investment!" as you sip you complementary coffee in the dealer waiting room.

Sports Guy and JTrea are in agreement on this. I think that says it all right there. There is no gray area.

[Frobby]

This.

And a note to point 1: players get raises in arbitration.

You can't apply the standard "rules" about what happens in arbitration cases for players who are under team control to cases where the player could have been a free agent but accepted arbitration instead. It's true that "captive" players typically get a seniority bump even after a down year. That recognizes that they are getting a less than market wage to begin with. The same isn't true for a guy like Koji. I seriously doubt Koji would have gotten a raise in arbitration.

[Arthur_Bryant]

If we're talking about improvement, let's talk about the increased financial flexibility rather than two potential prospects/or two stop-gaps.

We have 6 starters (Guts, Matusz, BB, Arrieta, Britton and Tillman), we have 5 experienced late innings guys (Simon, Berken, DH, Gonzalez, Johnson) and no third baseman, SS, or 1B!!!

These two moves take about $14 million off the books. Even if their arbitration contracts were equal to last year, they would cost $17 million (Millwood made $12 remember). I would rather spend that on a bat than these two.

.

I'm willing to wait for the whole package.

But they actually have to use that financial flexibility. The problem with the bolded is that we've been saying for three years that chasing value and cutting corners will at some point allow them to buy the bats.

So, it's time to buy the bats. Now.

Spend. The. Money.

Otherwise this is more of the same value hyper-consciousness, extreme risk aversion, cutting corners so that they can present PA with a good-looking balance sheet, and I've had about enough of it.

[Hank Scorpio]

If they re-sign him, this is a moot point.

But if he walks, it's really stupid.

[e16bball]

The one other semi-halfway plausible explanation here would be either an explicit agreement to not offer him arbitration as a condition of his contract, or a similar gentleman's agreement.

I think we're pretty sure the explicit agreement wasn't there, right?

I've never heard anything about an explicit agreement. Would think that would have come up by now.

But beyond the fact that we've never heard of it, I'm not sure what such an agreement would accomplish, at least in the Type B scenario.

I could see a situation where a player would prefer that we not offer arbitration if he was a Type A. After all, that designation greatly deflates his market. But a Type B? Offering arbitration has essentially no effect on his market. Basically, to request such an agreement to extend to a Type B designation, he'd be asking the team "Please don't attempt to benefit from my departure if I leave for another team. Even though it makes absolutely no difference to me."

[Sports Guy]

If they re-sign him, this is a moot point.

But if he walks, it's really stupid.

No its not...Right now, Koji is available to any team.

Even if the Orioles think they will get a deal done, they have no idea if some other team swoops in and offers him a lot more.

There is ZERO justification for not offering it to Koji.

[baltfan]

Yep....if he wants a multi-year deal, then he isn't going to go for a 1/5 type deal.

Why do you think he would get the same in arbitration as he earned last year? Isn't he similar to Gonzalez and Soriano in terms of comps for arbitration?

[Sports Guy]

I've never heard anything about an explicit agreement. Would think that would have come up by now.

But beyond the fact that we've never heard of it, I'm not sure what such an agreement would accomplish, at least in the Type B scenario.

I could see a situation where a player would prefer that we not offer arbitration if he was a Type A. After all, that designation greatly deflates his market. But a Type B? Offering arbitration has essentially no effect on his market. Basically, to request such an agreement to extend to a Type B designation, he'd be asking the team "Please don't attempt to benefit from my departure if I leave for another team. Even though it makes absolutely no difference to me."

Exactly..people are searching for reasons/answers that don't exist.

[Hank Scorpio]

No its not...Right now, Koji is available to any team.

Even if the Orioles think they will get a deal done, they have no idea if some other team swoops in and offers him a lot more.

There is ZERO justification for not offering it to Koji.

We don't know the details of whether or not they have a deal in place.

Let's not miss the bowl while urinating, here.

[Arthur_Bryant]

No its not...Right now, Koji is available to any team.

Even if the Orioles think they will get a deal done, they have no idea if some other team swoops in and offers him a lot more.

There is ZERO justification for not offering it to Koji.

Exactly. Negotiation can continue up to the hour they walk in front of the arb panel. It's just that nobody else can negotiate IF he accepts.

If he doesn't accept, the team gets the draft pick and they can still negotiate.

[McNulty]

Paying top dollar (at $5-6 million, Koji would be near the top of the food chain for set-up/middle reliever) for a product that will be unreliable at best is not a sound investment. Especially when we can probably land a similar pitcher -only one who pitches the whole season, for the same money.

If you paid for a Caddy, Audi, BMW, Mercedes and it spent 10-15 percent of the year -roughly a month- in the shop, and then had a stipulation that you couldn't drive it two days in a row you wouldn't say, "my, this was a sound investment!" as you sip you complementary coffee in the dealer waiting room.

44 innings last year, he was worth 5.5 million according to Fangraphs. Was worth over 7 the year before. If he stayed healthy (big if, but the potential is there), he'd be worth much more.

'Sound Investment'...I mean that its a good bet he'll be worth 5-6 million next year. And its a one year deal. If he falls apart, its not a huge problem.

Again, no downside.

[RVAbird]

If they re-sign him, this is a moot point.

But if he walks, it's really stupid.

Not really. They could have offered him arbitration, seen him decline, and still signed him later to a contract that both sides agreed to. The only difference is that we risk having nothing to show for losing him now.

Here's a somewhat defensible scenario: Koji wants to return to Baltimore, and Baltimore wants him back. They have made ground in contract talks, but haven't quite made an agreement yet. Still, it seems a deal is likely to get done. Koji's agent, however, has said to BAL: don't offer us arbitration, we won't accept it and it will just be an insult at this point since we have made it clear what kind of contract we are looking for.

But, that scenario doesn't make too much sense. If Koji were a type A, it would. He wouldn't want BAL offering arbitration because, if he declined, it would reduce the amount he would get on the market. I could see that angering Koji's camp if they were fairly close in negotiations.

However, being a type B, I can't imagine it would really matter at all to Koji or his agent. It would be like BAL saying, "we want you back, we want to continue to try to hammer out a deal, but in the event that you decline and elect to go elsewhere, we need some insurance that we wouldn't be left empty-handed. It won't affect you or the team you go to in any way."

I'm reaching, here, and I still can't defend this move.

[Sports Guy]

Why do you think he would get the same in arbitration as he earned last year? Isn't he similar to Gonzalez and Soriano in terms of comps for arbitration?

He was hurt a lot.

Soriano pitched in 77 games in 2009...He had a sub 3 ERA and great peripherals.

Same thing with Gonzo..80 games pitched, 74 IP....Solid peripherals.

Koji threw 30 less innings than these guys.