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TT: Reimold for Bartlett is a win-win


Tony-OH

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I think it is unlikely he sticks as a Type A, which is probably best since I can't see another team willing to give up a draft pick to sign him two years from now. If he ends up a Type B, and BAL isn't scared to offer him arbitration, and he declines, that could be valuable.

I am not convinced Reimold is going to bounce back -- I just don't see the upgrade accompanying the one year of Bartlett being worth Reimold. Particularly when the organization is lacking in power, and right-handed power to boot.

I also have no issue moving Reimold, I'd just prefer it not be for Bartlett. Not loving Izturis, but I'd probably hold my nose and re-sign him if it meant I could give Reimold another shot or move him for a longer-term return.

You'd rather hold on to Reimold and resign Itzuris? Yikes man, I'd rather set myself on fire than see that happen. ;)

I like Reimold, but I see him as a chip to help your team get better more than a piece of the core future. If you have an opportunity to get a starting SS for him your do it. Sometimes I think people get too caught up in overall value and service time and the like. They are all important, especially if you start talking about moving core guys, but for the rest of the guys that you deem as chips but not the core, you use them to improve your club, even if it's for the coming season.

We've spent too much time losing. It's time to improve the team. There should be no more of this, "We;re not competing next year so lets not do X." That's part of the thought process that has put us into 13 losing seasons.

Next year's primary goal should be to win as many games as we can without trading away our core players/prospects. I'm fine with trading Reimold in support of that goal.

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I think it is unlikely he sticks as a Type A, which is probably best since I can't see another team willing to give up a draft pick to sign him two years from now. If he ends up a Type B, and BAL isn't scared to offer him arbitration, and he declines, that could be valuable.

Even if he is a Type A/B, the O's would probably end up trading him at the deadline for a MiL reliever anyway.

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Bartlett will most likely not be a Type-A unless he has a year identical to 2009.

At the same time, if he is a Type-A, would a team really want to give up a 1st round pick for someone of Bartlett's caliber?

We are assuming/hoping that Bartlett can be closer to his 2009 season, yet we don't believe the same for Izturis. Let's say Izturis can repeat his 0.8 WAR from 2009, is the upgrade to a 1.5 WAR from Bartlett worth Reimold's future or whatever else he could bring back in another trade?

So you are comparing Bartlett's floor to Itzuris's absolute ceiling. C'mon, that's not even remotely fair or accurate. Bartlett has been a 5 WAR and 3.5 WAR player while Itzuris has never been above 2.5 (the only time he was above 1 WAR I believe).

Bartlett is a better overall player than Itzuris ever was and has the potential to be significantly better player.

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You'd rather hold on to Reimold and resign Itzuris? Yikes man, I'd rather set myself on fire than see that happen. ;)

I like Reimold, but I see him as a chip to help your team get better more than a piece of the core future. If you have an opportunity to get a starting SS for him your do it. Sometimes I think people get too caught up in overall value and service time and the like. They are all important, especially if you start talking about moving core guys, but for the rest of the guys that you deem as chips but not the core, you use them to improve your club, even if it's for the coming season.

We've spent too much time losing. It's time to improve the team. There should be no more of this, "We;re not competing next year so lets not do X." That's part of the thought process that has put us into 13 losing seasons.

Next year's primary goal should be to win as many games as we can without trading away our core players/prospects. I'm fine with trading Reimold in support of that goal.

I just think it's a poor use of the chips.

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I think it is unlikely he sticks as a Type A, which is probably best since I can't see another team willing to give up a draft pick to sign him two years from now. If he ends up a Type B, and BAL isn't scared to offer him arbitration, and he declines, that could be valuable.

I am not convinced Reimold is going to bounce back -- I just don't see the upgrade accompanying the one year of Bartlett being worth Reimold. Particularly when the organization is lacking in power, and right-handed power to boot.

I also have no issue moving Reimold, I'd just prefer it not be for Bartlett. Not loving Izturis, but I'd probably hold my nose and re-sign him if it meant I could give Reimold another shot or move him for a longer-term return.

Those three "if"s make this stupid trade stupider.

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I just think it's a poor use of the chips.

Agree 100% outside Bartlett will never ever approach 2009 again. He very well may never approach a 700 OPS with

average to poor defense next year. He will not be a type A

and will be very lucky to be a tpye B

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Next year's primary goal should be to win as many games as we can without trading away our core players/prospects. I'm fine with trading Reimold in support of that goal.

Yeah, I want to win to - or, more important, give the team a chance to win. There's no chance to win with Atkins, Tejada and Izzy. None. It's a team taking a flyer on a few guys who might have trade value at the deadline and which is holding the fort until prospects are ready.

A team that finished the season so strong under Buck is adding massive upgrades at three offensive positions. It's a team that could win. Several things would have to go right, but that team could win.

Bartlett's non-tender status means nothing to me and it should be nothing to anyone else. He's a ballplayer with a WAR over 2.5 for three of the last five years with a ceiling of 5 in 2009 with slightly negative/negative defensive WAR values for most of the past five years.

These upgrades offer something else. A destination for all-star level guys who can see we would be two impact players away from 90 wins - maybe less if Wieters or Jones breakout - and competing in a most legitimate manner.

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I just think it's a poor use of the chips.
Bingo. Reimold's role with the club notwithstanding, Jason Bartlett just doesn't really make enough of a difference in our lineup next year to justify trading for him. JJ Hardy's power would somewhat change the complexion of the lineup enough to warrant giving up players in return, but Bartlett (to me) is a non-factor.
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There is some overlap between Reimold, Pie, and Scott. But that doesn't mean you just give Reimold away... his potential is so much more than that. And if no one will give more than that, I hold onto him. He may very well wind up outplaying Pie.

As far as I'm concerned, since we're not going to be contending next year, Bartlett's worth is: 0. If he's type B then that's at least something, but talk about getting a ML shortstop out there on the field is way overblown. It's for a year and Bartlett is not that good, at all. His defense is worse than Izzy, his offense is not that good, and we're giving up many years of Reimold.

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Bartlett posted a .674 OPS last season.

What are the odds of him producing enough to be considered a type B FA next year?

That's a serious question. I'd guess he'd have to post an OPS around .750, but I'm not sure about Elias' criteria.

This year, Betancourt was the last Type B and he posted a .625 and .692 OPS the last two years. Andrus was a Type B and he posted a .702 and .643. Erick Aybar (Type B) .776 and .636.

Asdrubal Cabrera was the last SS Type A and he posted a .799 and .673

So, it looks like Bartlett would need around a .640 OPS to be a Type B, and close to .800 for Type A. Of course, I'm not sure if Elias takes defense (or what metric they use) into account.

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Yeah, I want to win to - or, more important, give the team a chance to win. There's no chance to win with Atkins, Tejada and Izzy. None. It's a team taking a flyer on a few guys who might have trade value at the deadline and which is holding the fort until prospects are ready.

A team that finished the season so strong under Buck is adding massive upgrades at three offensive positions. It's a team that could win. Several things would have to go right, but that team could win.

Bartlett's non-tender status means nothing to me and it should be nothing to anyone else. He's a ballplayer with a WAR over 2.5 for three of the last five years with a ceiling of 5 in 2009 with slightly negative/negative defensive WAR values for most of the past five years.

These upgrades offer something else. A destination for all-star level guys who can see we would be two impact players away from 90 wins - maybe less if Wieters or Jones breakout - and competing in a most legitimate manner.

Hopefully this is true and the names are changing!

2:38pm: No deal is imminent and the names vary, tweets MLB.com's Brittany Ghiroli. The Rays want Reimold and Alfredo Simon for Bartlett, tweets Connolly.

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Trading a possible 4th outfielder/possible head case for a starting SS makes too much sense which means the O's will not pull the trigger.

Bartlett is Babe Freaking Ruth compared to Izturis!

You can't play without a SS and if thats the cost, you do it. Who else will you put at SS?

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We've spent too much time losing. It's time to improve the team. There should be no more of this, "We;re not competing next year so lets not do X." That's part of the thought process that has put us into 13 losing seasons.

Next year's primary goal should be to win as many games as we can without trading away our core players/prospects. I'm fine with trading Reimold in support of that goal.

I'm genuinely torn here. On one hand, I see the ball jumping off of Reimold's bat...a player who takes pitches...a real hustler. On the other hand i see a personal mess...a guy who's always injured...a total defensive liability...a 27 y.o. who basically had one hot stretch to force himself onto the O's and earn the fan's love.

I could see him as a guy who gets it together, but that equals Luke Scott, not Jayson Werth, because Reimold has 0 defensive value.

I also see Tony's point about winning games. We need to get to 81 wins before we get to 91 wins. We need to learn how to win...and put ourselves into a position where we don't need several major upgrades in every offseason.

I don't view that as a small step. I view it as integral to building a winning culture. Most teams won't catch helium in a balloon like the 2008 Rays. I think we'll have to walk before we run.

This really all comes down to what the O's think Reimold's probability of success is versus the importance of building a team that solid or better at every position.

By all indications, the O's put the probability of Reimold hitting anything near his upside as much lower than many on this site.

My position is...whatever.

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I've probably said this a couple times already but I'd rather sign Cabrera or Renteria than make this deal even though both are nearing the ends of their careers (I'd also rather have them than Izturis FWIW). There are other options.

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You don't think a starting SS in the major leagues is appropriate for his value? What do you think his value is at the moment?

I just think a lot of people are over valuing Reimold's value. He's a 27-year old DH who is coming off a miserable year with off field problems to boot. He very well might rebound, but isn't this guy available for "free" and is probably a better overall player?

Yes, but he's 32 now. Look what he had done prior to the 2006 season. I don't think that's a fair comparison. Give me unlimited Reimold + 1 year of Izzy over 1 year of Bartlett any day.

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