Orioles Payroll is a Slap in the Face to Fans

[Crazysilver03]

Why? It's not your money. Well, in a way I suppose it is, in the sense that you may have bought ticket, paid a cable bill (i.e. MASN money), or bought a hat. The alternative to the team spending money is it going into the owner's pockets, though, and that's what's happening. An effort to win isn't really being made.

I'm shocked people are finding ways to defend this organization after all this time. I guess it's sort of like Stockholm Syndrome.

What happened this week? We acquired a guy who hit .198 last year and two utility infielders. I don't think any of those moves exactly set the baseball world on fire. I mean, I like Reynolds' power and on-base percentage, he's probably a good reclamation project to give a shot to, but it's not like acquiring a big ticket free agent or an All-Star or something through a trade. And Izturis in a utility role is probably an upgrade over Lugo, but we're talking about a ultility infielder. Meanwhile, the Red Sox keep doing what it takes to get even better than they already were last year -- and the Yankees probably aren't very far away from signing Cliff Lee.

Include these things in the salary cap, or have separate minor league/draft/intentional acquisitions caps.

Exactly. If the article was in fact outdated, the essential point still remains.

What agenda? I don't get it. We're all here because we're fans, right?

The "it's not your money" argument is weak. You can look at years past to see where payroll has stood and get a decent understanding of how high they could take it. At the same, time, we will only get good if the core develops and stays strong. To keep the core together, we will have to pay them handsomely at the same time, as they will all hit arbitration around the same time. You don't want to have no payroll flexibility in three seasons when everyone starts getting expensive.

People defend this organization when people approach it in such a hostile way. Your facts were wrong in the OP and you turn that around as a defense for the organization.

To cite Reynolds' AVG and not see the power he brings to the line-up, as well as classifying Hardy as a utilityman is selling the moves very short. Maybe you aren't educated about the players or simply don't care to be, but to not understand the arguments posed by others is just ignorant.

Going back to the payroll, it might be "cheaper" this year, but next year, you will see increases in salary to Reynolds and Markakis, as well as the arbitration guys again.

[Crazysilver03]

Um. LOL.

Very thorough response.

[Orioles West]

Exactly. If the article was in fact outdated, the essential point still remains.

If the initial informational point of the post was off by almost 40 million dollars a year, I'm not sure I am seeing the "essential" part of it. If you're simply suggesting the team spends more money, some specifics always help.

I just don't think spending more equates to "better" teams, it is not automatic by any stretch of the imagination.

As to defending the team, I think the pace of the rebuild over the last three years deserves criticism, but this winter isn't over and I like the additions so far. Of course, if first base is not addressed before spring training, I will be disappointed, but still not feel a "slap in the face" until we see how the team performs.

-Don

[Hank Scorpio]

http://www.amazinavenue.com/2010/12/8/1865392/its-not-the-amount-of-money-in-the-bank-its-how-you-spend-it

[ESos92]

It's not a shame that the O's payroll is currently low at the moment. Who should we have gotten? If you ask me the Werth and Crawford contracts were absurdly huge, something that would hamper this franchise for years over the production they would provide. I knew Crawford's contract would be ridiculous, and Werth I was a fan of for the right price. He didn't come at the right price. Cliff Lee will surely not come at the right price either.

I am all for overspending, but only for what fits your teams most ailing needs. The need for this team is 1B. If there was a big-time 1B out there on the market, I'd be gun-ho for the O's to unload the bank for him. But that is simply not the case. Why don't we just set ourselves up to have the money to spend when the timing is right (The example being Prince Fielder next year).

Now with team being the way it is currently assembled, I hope Andy doesn't cheap out on personnel moves already in our control. For example, you're right the payroll is low, and that should not deter us from releasing Harris outright despite his 1.5 mil salary. If we keep him on this team, then I would agree were pinching the pennies when we have the money to spend.

There was just no one worth it for us to break the bank for. Period.

[Crazysilver03]

Now with team being the way it is currently assembled, I hope Andy doesn't cheap out on personnel moves already in our control. For example, you're right the payroll is low, and that should not deter us from releasing Harris outright despite his 1.5 mil salary. If we keep him on this team, then I would agree were pinching the pennies when we have the money to spend.

Harris is not on the 40 man roster. He will start the season at Triple-A Norfolk and very well could spend the whole season there.

It is my understanding that if he were added to the 25 man roster and subsequently removed, he would have to accept the assignment to Norfolk to keep his salary.

Either way, the situation with Harris is unique in comparison to past situations.

BTW, his salary is $1.75M with $.5M being sent over from the Twins.

[ESos92]

Why? It's not your money. Well, in a way I suppose it is, in the sense that you may have bought ticket, paid a cable bill (i.e. MASN money), or bought a hat. The alternative to the team spending money is it going into the owner's pockets, though, and that's what's happening. An effort to win isn't really being made.

No it's not our money, but we have an understanding that the Orioles just can't pull money out of nowhere. Something you do not seem to get

Most want the O's to use their limited resources on the right guys. Signing a Werth to mega-contract won't allow us to sign the player we truly need. If we had the pockets of the Yankees, I would overspend for every player just so we can have anyone we want. But, the O's need to be fiscally responsible to put a winning team out there on the field. They have to weigh each risk

[ESos92]

Harris is not on the 40 man roster. He will start the season at Triple-A Norfolk and very well could spend the whole season there.

It is my understanding that if he were added to the 25 man roster and subsequently removed, he would have to accept the assignment to Norfolk to keep his salary.

Either way, the situation with Harris is unique in comparison to past situations.

BTW, his salary is $1.75M with $.5M being sent over from the Twins.

Thanks for the clarification. If the O's were wasting a bench spot on him, I would be upset, but it seems like they are not.

Adding more to the reason the Orioles are not being cheap, and care about the product on the field

[El Gordo]

The O's will indeed have to overspend eventually. But they can't overspend constantly like the MFY's. They have to pick their shots. And the consequences of a big mistake would be devastaing for them. Imagine if the O's were stuck with a Soriano or a Zito. IMO Crawford, Werth, Dunn, and Beltre, weren't the guys to overspend on.

[Crazysilver03]

The O's will indeed have to overspend eventually. But they can't overspend constantly like the MFY's. They have to pick their shots. And the consequences of a big mistake would be devastaing for them. Imagine if the O's were stuck with a Soriano or a Zito. IMO Crawford, Werth, Dunn, and Beltre, weren't the guys to overspend on.

Lumping Dunn and Beltre in with Crawford and Werth is a reach.

I think a very good argument could be established that the Orioles should have spent on Dunn.

[El Gordo]

Lumping Dunn and Beltre in with Crawford and Werth is a reach.

I think a very good argument could be established that the Orioles should have spent on Dunn.

Dunn agreed to play for a contender as a part time DH/1B for the price of 4/56. He would have cost the O's considerably more to DH for a non contender. I don't think Dunn was worth more than 4/60, so the money it would have taken to get him away from the Chisox would have been ridiculous IMO.

[glorydays]

Why? It's not your money. Well, in a way I suppose it is, in the sense that you may have bought ticket, paid a cable bill (i.e. MASN money), or bought a hat. The alternative to the team spending money is it going into the owner's pockets, though, and that's what's happening. An effort to win isn't really being made.

I'm shocked people are finding ways to defend this organization after all this time. I guess it's sort of like Stockholm Syndrome.

What happened this week? We acquired a guy who hit .198 last year and two utility infielders. I don't think any of those moves exactly set the baseball world on fire. I mean, I like Reynolds' power and on-base percentage, he's probably a good reclamation project to give a shot to, but it's not like acquiring a big ticket free agent or an All-Star or something through a trade. And Izturis in a utility role is probably an upgrade over Lugo, but we're talking about a ultility infielder. Meanwhile, the Red Sox keep doing what it takes to get even better than they already were last year -- and the Yankees probably aren't very far away from signing Cliff Lee.

Include these things in the salary cap, or have separate minor league/draft/intentional acquisitions caps.

Exactly. If the article was in fact outdated, the essential point still remains.

What agenda? I don't get it. We're all here because we're fans, right?

Just like politics... you have people at both extremes in their support/lack of support for the organization and a majority who sit in the middle. Those who support the franchise will love every move and make an excuse for every move not made. Those who do not support the organization will criticize every move and one that isn't made. Both groups greatly exaggerate to prove their points - like you have here in your characterization of Reynolds and Hardy.

A vast majority of those who post here are centralist. Some will sit on the "lack of support" side, others may sit more towards the "support the franchise" and some can go back and forth... but generally they can see a good move when it is made, understand general baseball economics (young talent is cheaper = lower payroll), see the weaknesses that need to be addressed, etc and can do it with a fair mind.

[FLBird]

Based on your other posts, it's just a waste of my time.

Maybe if you prove yourself a little more.

No need to "prove" myself to you, for sure!:laughlol:

You wear a Jeter jersey also?

[Sports Guy]

Is there ever going to be a point where people realize that its no how much you spend but what you spend it on? I doubt it because that takes way too much common sense, which is a trait that is so lacking in most people.

[Crazysilver03]

No need to "prove" myself to you, for sure!:laughlol:

You wear a Jeter jersey also?

How do you expect meaningful responses when you are so hostile in your responses?

You aren't simply stating the facts.