Comparing pre-Orioles Wigginton to LaRoche

[Hooded Viper]

Guys don't argue with this guy. He started out with zero credibility and is now in the negative zone. His arguments are jokes and now tries to go back and edit his words to fit his arguments. Pathetic! Put him on ignore list, like I am doing, and watch him go back to the Sun Board with the rest of his kind!

[Sports Guy]

Guys don't argue with this guy. He started out with zero credibility and is now in the negative zone. His arguments are jokes and now tries to go back and edit his words to fit his arguments. Pathetic! Put him on ignore list, like I am doing, and watch him go back to the Sun Board with the rest of his kind!

Its all about getting him to 500 posts!

[maybe2050]

Maybe2050, with all due respect, you might want to slow down and think about what you're posting before you post it. Nothing you've said in this thread makes a lick of sense.

You're asking for players who hit .300 or had 100 RBIs (and yes, you did say "or") who didn't have good WARs. People have provided examples that you've ignored...but the bigger question is, what's the point of this exercise? What does any of this have to do with anything? You're just not making your point very well, if you have one.

I'm simply trying to show that when I'm told I'm not up with the times because I don't value WAR and fWAR as my only ways to judge a player, that isn't correct. If I'm allowed to be judged, I'm defending my views with facts. And I havn't been shown a player that hit .300 and had 100 RBI's yet that was deemed as not having a good year.

Bautista wasn't an example that fit the bill, Gibbons didn't meet the bill, and neither did Pierre. My point was made, I'll move on, there's other information on here better than continuing this , I agree.

[Crazysilver03]

I'm simply trying to show that when I'm told I'm not up with the times because I don't value WAR and fWAR as my only ways to judge a player, that isn't correct. If I'm allowed to be judged, I'm defending my views with facts. And I havn't been shown a player that hit .300 and had 100 RBI's yet that was deemed as not having a good year.

You haven't been shown that because that isn't what you asked.

What part do you not understand about the fact that you originally said "or", not "and." You refuse to admit your mistake.

BTW, no one said WAR was the end all be all to judge players. Just your idea that Wigginton was a great player is proven wrong by the stats.

BTW II, only 203 more to go.

[maybe2050]

Its all about getting him to 500 posts!

Nope, that's not it.

[Hooded Viper]

Its all about getting him to 500 posts!

I was thinking the same thing for a while but god I just can't take it any longer. Lol.

[maybe2050]

You haven't been shown that because that isn't what you asked.

What part do you not understand about the fact that you originally said "or", not "and." You refuse to admit your mistake.

BTW, no one said WAR was the end all be all to judge players. Just your idea that Wigginton was a great player is proven wrong by the stats.

BTW II, only 203 more to go.

If I put an or in there, then that was my mistake, but can anyone show me a player that did it? The exercise was to prove that batting average and RBI totals are not useless bits of information. They are as valuable as WAR and fWAR

[Crazysilver03]

If I put an or in there, then that was my mistake, but can anyone show me a player that did it? The exercise was to prove that batting average and RBI totals are not useless bits of information. They are as valuable as WAR and fWAR

You are correct that BA and RBI are not useless. But they also don't have as much weight as WAR.

By the way, fWAR is just a version of WAR, not two separate things.

[Babypowder]

If I put an or in there, then that was my mistake, but can anyone show me a player that did it? The exercise was to prove that batting average and RBI totals are not useless bits of information. They are as valuable as WAR and fWAR

Jayson Werth hit .296 27 homers and 85 RBI last year.

Vlad Guerrero hit .300 29 homers and 115 RBI last year.

Who was a better hitter last year?

[maybe2050]

You are correct that BA and RBI are not useless. But they also don't have as much weight as WAR.

By the way, fWAR is just a version of WAR, not two separate things.

I could have just made my point a little better by better wording. I should have just said "WAR is not the only means of judging a player". :2yay-thumb:

[wildcard]

I see LaRoche as a better defensive player than Wiggy who will save errors for all the other infielders and that will help the pitching staff. To me LaRoche, Hardy and Reynolds are all support players with holes in their game. However they upgrade the team and will allow the O's young players and pitchers to reach their potential by carrying some of the offense load and being a better defensive combination.

I too like Lee better but LaRoche is the best fall back 1B available. As a lefty in Camden I think he can do well but I doubt he improves over his last three year average production. I would be fine with the 25 HR, 89 RBI and 824 OPS that I think he can continue to produce each year over the term of his contract.

The two things that I will not like but come with the package is his slow starts and the fact that he is not going to help against lefties the way Lee would have.

[Frobby]

Wigginton 2008 (HOU) OPS+ 128 .876

Wigginton 2009 (BAL) OPS+ 86 .714

LaRoche (ARI) 2010 OPS+ 106 .788

LaRoche 2011 - ???. I will say it has nothing to do in comparison to Wigginton.

I don't see how relevant it is to use the numbers for a RHB (Wigginton) and extrapolating some SWAG for a LHB (LaRoche), not to mention the difference in park factors that they played in before Baltimore.

Just curious, do the stats bear out that OPACY favors LHB's compared to RHB's? You hear this a lot but I don't know if it's true. I agree that no one player's delta moving from the NL to Baltimore is directly relatable to another's. It's just a data point.

[bandy75]

Jayson Werth hit .296 27 homers and 85 RBI last year.

Vlad Guerrero hit .300 29 homers and 115 RBI last year.

Who was a better hitter last year?

Obviously Vlad was better (.004+2+30= 32.004) 32.004 maybepoints better!

[maybe2050]

Jayson Werth hit .296 27 homers and 85 RBI last year.

Vlad Guerrero hit .300 29 homers and 115 RBI last year.

Who was a better hitter last year?

Werth, but why has there been about 100 posts about adding Vlad to the Orioles as a DH this year then? I still wouldn't consider Vlad as having a bad year. Given his numbers in his career yes, but compared to a Reynolds no.

[Hank Scorpio]

Adam Dunn hit 40 dongs in 2008 and was 1.1 WAR.