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Chris Richard talks about HGH/steroids in baseball


GeorgiaBird

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He is doing a blog this offseason for the Durham Bulls, his 2007 employer. Interesting read of a topic that players don't often discuss, a fact that he admits...

And from the slow progress of steroid testing, why should we trust the powers to be. If a player were to "rat" another player out, he would probably be released unless he was a top prospect. It has never happened with active players which should tell you the fear that all of us have of being "blackballed". It will probably never happen because of the chemistry needed to be a good teammate. The fastest way out of the game is being a bad clubhouse guy and trying to ruin someone else's career would fit that definition. Shoot, I'm worried about just writing about this subject as it might ruffle some feathers.

http://www.durhambulls.com/team/press_release.html?id=349

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And from the slow progress of steroid testing, why should we trust the powers to be. If a player were to "rat" another player out, he would probably be released unless he was a top prospect. It has never happened with active players which should tell you the fear that all of us have of being "blackballed". It will probably never happen because of the chemistry needed to be a good teammate. The fastest way out of the game is being a bad clubhouse guy and trying to ruin someone else's career would fit that definition. Shoot, I'm worried about just writing about this subject as it might ruffle some feathers.

Being a "Good Teammate" means lying about a teammates abuse of a controlled/illegal substance? :confused::rolleyes: Good to see Chris Richard is such an upstanding person. That's one more former Oriole that I won't be rooting for.

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Oh come on. It is more about not being a whistle blower.

I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that line of thinking. That might work when you're 14 and your friends' mom asks you if he's smoking, but I hardly think that's a working excuse for an adult. You mean to tell me if you catch a guy at work using drugs or if you're at a bank and you catch your buddy pocketing cash you're not going to 'rat' on him??

It's amusing that the same things that could possibly have me arrested as an accessory/accomplice make someone a "good teammate" in sports.

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Who does that leave you rooting for besides Jose Canseco and Bud Selig? :)

I'm not a big fan of Canseco or even a guy like Grimsley, but I find it odd that people totally discredit anything/everything they say. Somehow every comment Canseco makes is considered "meaningless" even though pretty much everything he's said up to this point has been true.

On a side note, I thought you changed your name to TinCup. Or is that someone else?

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I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that line of thinking. That might work when you're 14 and your friends' mom asks you if he's smoking, but I hardly think that's a working excuse for an adult. You mean to tell me if you catch a guy at work using drugs or if you're at a bank and you catch your buddy pocketing cash you're not going to 'rat' on him??

It's amusing that the same things that could possibly have me arrested as an accessory/accomplice make someone a "good teammate" in sports.

You are using bad examples to state your case.

A guy at work using drugs or someone pocketing cash (stealing) is not at all close to this situation.

Why do you have to be the one to come out and state a guy is using PEDs? Baseball is a close knit community. They have their own union and it is a very powerful one. So you mean to tell me, that after all this time of building your union up, you are going to be the one trying to bring it down?

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Being a "Good Teammate" means lying about a teammates abuse of a controlled/illegal substance? :confused::rolleyes: Good to see Chris Richard is such an upstanding person. That's one more former Oriole that I won't be rooting for.

It's a rule they're ALL living by except for the select few who've already blown the whistle.

My question to you? Based on your logic, what players, Orioles, ex-Orioles, or otherwise, CAN you root for?

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I'm not a big fan of Canseco or even a guy like Grimsley, but I find it odd that people totally discredit anything/everything they say. Somehow every comment Canseco makes is considered "meaningless" even though pretty much everything he's said up to this point has been true.

On a side note, I thought you changed your name to TinCup. Or is that someone else?

That is Moscow Bird. Migrant is a Cardinals fan.

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I'm sorry, but I just don't understand that line of thinking. That might work when you're 14 and your friends' mom asks you if he's smoking, but I hardly think that's a working excuse for an adult. You mean to tell me if you catch a guy at work using drugs or if you're at a bank and you catch your buddy pocketing cash you're not going to 'rat' on him??

It's amusing that the same things that could possibly have me arrested as an accessory/accomplice make someone a "good teammate" in sports.

A lot of that has to do with how pervasive the behavior is in the culture the person lives and works in. If you work in a bank and somebody's stealing from the vault, it's probably only one or two or three people out of maybe 40 who work at the bank. Stealing is a pretty black and white case. You don't know someone's doing it unless you see them take the money and hide it somewhere. You also know that the bank manager (unless s/he is one of the thieves) is going to be sincerely grateful to the whistleblower and act to stop the thievery immediately. You may have some empathy toward the thief, depending on their situation, but you've been raised from the day you were born to believe that stealing is wrong and that's a very generally accepted and strong belief across virtually all segments of society. Plus, laws governing the penalties for petty theft are pretty well established, fair, and predictable (well except for the whole racial and economic disparity in the justice system thing but I'm not trying to open that can of worms right now).

In the case of PED use, it's much more difficult to prove. Chris Richard may be fairly sure that players X and Y use steroids based on how their muscles have grown, but what if he's wrong? Unless he's seen them stick the needle in their butt or seen the writing on a bottle of pills or something, he doesn't know for sure. On top of that, it's something the majority of players have probably at least dabbled in. If they haven't gone out and bought something illegal, maybe they drank a protein shake without doing thorough research into the ingredients, drank spiked coffee, or took a ritalin without a prescription. Certainly they've felt pressure and had to think about whether to use or not. They can empathize with the users in a much more personal way than the average bank teller can empathize with someone slipping money into their pocket. They probably really like some of the users personally, and remember a time before they got caught up in it when those users wanted no part of steroids. They may believe that the current atmosphere of hype about the issue is way out of proportion and that while the users may deserve some punishment, what's going on now is more than they bargained for and be bitter about the fact that the very bosses who once openly turned a blind eye to drug use are now overzealously looking for ways to dish out punishment for incidents that took place while they were intentionally turning that blind eye. There are a lot of perfectly understandable, some even ethical, human reasons for the few non-using players in baseball to keep quiet. It's not that they're evil people.

Think about all the cops who have witnessed police brutality or racism and said nothing, the soldiers who have witnessed war crimes, the politicians who are aware of corruption, priests who didn't report the alarmingly strange behavior of molesters... all these are far more serious crimes than steroid use and shouldn't be compared in any way, but social circumstances make it very, very difficult for the innocent bystander to come forward even in life or death cases. You have every right to think a little less of Chris Richard because you believe he should report whatever he's witnessed, but to completely condemn him for having the same type of reaction most human beings would have in the situation he describes is overkill... particularly when you haven't walked a mile in his shoes.

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You are using bad examples to state your case.

A guy at work using drugs or someone pocketing cash (stealing) is not at all close to this situation.

Why do you have to be the one to come out and state a guy is using PEDs? Baseball is a close knit community. They have their own union and it is a very powerful one. So you mean to tell me, that after all this time of building your union up, you are going to be the one trying to bring it down?

It's also more like "What happens in the clubhouse, stays in the clubhouse" kind of mentality. And probably for some big league guys, what ever goes on during a road trip never gets mentioned either (if you catch my drift ;))

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You are using bad examples to state your case.

A guy at work using drugs or someone pocketing cash (stealing) is not at all close to this situation.

Why do you have to be the one to come out and state a guy is using PEDs? Baseball is a close knit community. They have their own union and it is a very powerful one. So you mean to tell me, that after all this time of building your union up, you are going to be the one trying to bring it down?

I guess I just look at it differently.

Look at a guy like Bonds. While he was one of the better paid players in the game, a "sudden spike" in his stats (i.e. - crushing his career avg.'s and over half a dozen HOF records) and now he's a $20 Mil. a year player. He's in his 40's, his speed is gone and his body is giving out on him. Can you really look at his career numbers before '99/'00 and say that he'd be making $20 Mil. per without those record destorying seasons??

I can't and IMO, that's stealing.

As for the union question, I could really care less and the MLB union. I don't see a point in a 'union' when the average player is making 7 figures. If anything, I think the MLB players union has been a huge contributing factor in the problems that MLB currently finds it self in.

It's a rule they're ALL living by except for the select few who've already blown the whistle.

My question to you? Based on your logic, what players, Orioles, ex-Orioles, or otherwise, CAN you root for?

Basically, any of the players that I/we "know" are clean. I know we'll never know 100% which players were or were not users, but that doesn't mean you turn a blind eye to the guys that did cheat. I don't care if you're a hated guy like Bonds, a nobody like Grimsley or an icon like Ripken. If you cheated, you CHEATED. Can you really look at your little kid and tell him it's ok that so-and-so used a controlled/illegal substance because, "Well ... everyone else was at the time."?

That is Moscow Bird. Migrant is a Cardinals fan.

Ha! My bad .... I knew it was one of the Birds, just wasn't sure which one. ;)

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I'm not a big fan of Canseco or even a guy like Grimsley, but I find it odd that people totally discredit anything/everything they say. Somehow every comment Canseco makes is considered "meaningless" even though pretty much everything he's said up to this point has been true.

Canseco pretty well indicted himself as a liar when Mike Wallace interviewed him on 60 Minutes

MIKE WALLACE: You write repeatedly about injecting steroids and growth hormones with and into Mark McGwire. Tell me about your first hand experiences with McGwire and steroids.

JOSE CANSECO: Just the first time injecting them in his buttocks (LAUGHTER) it was-but-it wasn't like you gave a lot of thought. It was-it was something so-so common-

MIKE WALLACE: "What we did more times than I can count was go into a bathroom stall together, shoot up steroids"-that's right. "After batting practice or right before the game, Mark and I would duck into a stall in the men's room, load up our syringes and inject ourselves. I would often inject Mark."

JOSE CANSECO: I injected him probably twice. But it wasn't like-I mean we would just walk in and-a lot of times they were pill form. A lot of times, you know, you would just-a quick injection of whatever and that's it. It was-

MIKE WALLACE: I'm just repeating what you say-

JOSE CANSECO: Right.

MIKE WALLACE: in the book. And if we're to believe what you say in the book. I would often"-often. Not twice. "Inject Mark."

JOSE CANSECO: Well I think it was more inject ourselves. I think I injected him-I mean this is a long time ago. Once or twice for sure. I didn't keep track but

I have no doubt that Canseco was telling the truth when he said that he used steroids. He might have been telling the truth about some of the others whom he said were using steroids, but he obviously embellished his accounts of injecting McGwire with steroids in order to make his book juicier. Whether that means he was lying about McGwire entirely is something I don't know.

Canseco wouldn't be the first individual to take some liberties with the truth in order to pump up his book sales. It's possible that his editor looked over his first draft and told Jose that his book needed some big names in order to be marketable. What bigger names were there than McGwire, Palmeiro, and Ivan Rodriguez? Since all of them had already been rumored to have used steroids, the odds of any of them winning a libel suit against Canseco and his publisher were approximately nil. After all, it's pretty difficult to corroborate -- or refute -- what Canseco claims happened in the privacy of a bathroom stall with McGwire.

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Canseco pretty well indicted himself as a liar when Mike Wallace interviewed him on 60 Minutes

I have no doubt that Canseco was telling the truth when he said that he used steroids. He might have been telling the truth about some of the others whom he said were using steroids, but he obviously embellished his accounts of injecting McGwire with steroids in order to make his book juicier. Whether that means he was lying about McGwire entirely is something I don't know.

Canseco wouldn't be the first individual to take some liberties with the truth in order to pump up his book sales. It's possible that his editor looked over his first draft and told Jose that his book needed some big names in order to be marketable. What bigger names were there than McGwire, Palmeiro, and Ivan Rodriguez? Since all of them had already been rumored to have used steroids, the odds of any of them winning a libel suit against Canseco and his publisher were approximately nil. After all, it's pretty difficult to corroborate -- or refute -- what Canseco claims happened in the privacy of a bathroom stall with McGwire.

I'm not saying that whatever Canseco says is gospel, but people shoot him done without a second thought. The man said that around 80% of guys in MLB are users. People laughed, but it was only a year or two ago when it seemed like there were 30+ guys a month in the MiL's not only on their 1st but 2nd suspensions for PED use, names of ML players have dropped almost every other month and we're on the verge of a report being released that will supposedly name 'quite a few big name players'. As for the names he's dropped: Palmeiro was a user, McGwire admits he used andro and completely folded under direct questioning from congress and Ivan Rodriguez looks like he's lost 30+ lbs and his power has magically disappeared.

I definitely agree that he probably embellished a lot of details in his book to sell copies, but that doesn't mean everything he says is wrong.

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