Who is a better defensive SS than Miggy?

[wildcard]

I don't care what the stats say, Tejada was not good in the field last year. His range is not good and if his zone rating is good, it only tells me that that stat isn't very good. If Tejada is stuck on a team that doesn't compete he will sulk and pout and play lacksadasical baseball again. His value will drop further and in 2009 he will again sulk and pout and play lazy. Then leave as a free agent. We need to get as much for him as possible. We need to explore trading Bedard, Roberts, Hernadez and a bunch of others.

Again, if that defensive stat says Tejada is a good defensive SS then that stat is terrible.

I do not think that the stats are saying the Miggy is that great defensively. However, the ss that are being looked at to replace him are as bad or worse than he is.

[bigbird]

Poor bigbird...everything he says here needs a qualifier. Whenever I read one of his posts I do the same thing..."Oooh...is that what he's hearing or what he's hoping for?"

BB...we should give you a separate handle here: "bigbird-insideinfo" and "bigbird-fan".

Insider info soon to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:cool:

[Dipper9]

Insider info soon to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:cool:

That sucks! Hope the OH didn't have anything to do with it???

Will this "end of the inside info" be someone that will make the news, or is it just some random person you know who works in the warehouse? If you cannot answer, I understand! I was just wondering if all of a sudden we may see "Mike Flanagan Reassigned" and think, "Holy moly, THAT was BB's guy?"

[markdublya]

Insider info soon to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:cool:

That doesn't answer the Jack Wilson question...

[Migrant Redbird]

Wilson has been mentioned as being better. He looks steadier. I'd say it is questionable if he is better range wise according to zf.

2007: .983 fpct, 4.96 rf, .810 zf

2006: .972 fpct, 4.97 rf, .837zf

Regardless of what the numbers say, Jack Wilson is gold glove material, probably the best shortstop in the National League after Adam Everett of Houston. Unfortunately, Jack doesn't hit all that much better than Everett does.

Actually, Jack hit pretty well at the plate in 2004 and 2007, with an OPS+ of 104 and 105 respectively in those seasons. However, in 5 other full major league seasons, his best OPS+ was 77! The Pirates gave him a huge contract after the 2004 season, assuming that he would continue to put up offensive numbers like that and play outstanding defense. Jack has only kept up half of the bargain.

Jack came up through the Cardinals system and seems to hit particularly well against us. I'd like to see him back in St. Louis instead off David Eckstein, but his salary is too high for what he brings to the plate.

Some of you guys are much better at defensive stats then I. So if you can explain in English, not geek speak, how any players the O's can obtain is better defensively than Miggy, I would love to read it.

Using their metrics, The Fielding Bible ranked Wilson 2nd among shortstops in defense over the 2003-2005 seasons, behind Everett and ahead of Rollins, Furcal, and Neifi Perez. Vizquel was 9th and Jeter was 30th, ahead of only MIchael Young. Here's how they described Wilson's defense.

Wilson arrived in the majors with a strong defensive reputation and he's improved enough to now rank among the best in the game. His range is excellent, handling more balls in the hole over the last three years than any other shortstop. His stats indicate that he may be shading in that direction, with talented Jose Castillo playing second and I Don't Know - Third Base.

Wilson will be 30 next year, so he should be good for a couple more seasons before slowing down, unless he's beset by injuries.

[Frobby]

Using their metrics, The Fielding Bible ranked Wilson 2nd among shortstops in defense over the 2003-2005 seasons, behind Everett and ahead of Rollins, Furcal, and Neifi Perez. Vizquel was 9th and Jeter was 30th, ahead of only MIchael Young.

Well, as long as he's better than somebody, I guess they can continue to give him the Gold Glove every year. Where did Tejada rank?

[YardBirds13]

Who is a better defensive shortstop?

My 85 year old grandmother, a 3 legged pig, and Jay Gibbons.

At least according to some people here.

[byrdz]

Well, as long as he's better than somebody, I guess they can continue to give him the Gold Glove every year. Where did Tejada rank?

verett was assigned a plus-76 for the past three years, well ahead of the Pirates' Jack Wilson (plus-50), who was ranked second. Tejada, at plus-15, ranked 11th. Jeter (minus-64) was 30th, and Rangers All-Star Michael Young (minus-73) ranked 31st and last.

Source

So, that makes him above average defensively. How Jeter continues to get Gold Gloves is beyond me. Don't these people who vote have a conscience?

[os1971]

Insider info soon to be gone!!!!!!!!!!!!!11:cool:

Hope your insider is Flanagan then.

[Gurgi]

The gold glove is a beauty contest. Plain and simple.

[os1971]

verett was assigned a plus-76 for the past three years, well ahead of the Pirates' Jack Wilson (plus-50), who was ranked second. Tejada, at plus-15, ranked 11th. Jeter (minus-64) was 30th, and Rangers All-Star Michael Young (minus-73) ranked 31st and last.

Source

So, that makes him above average defensively. How Jeter continues to get Gold Gloves is beyond me. Don't these people who vote have a conscience?

Of course those are cumulative 2003-2005 numbers. Don't think anyone would argue that Tejada was average to slightly above average at least up to 2004, of more concern is his very noticable decline in 2006 (leg injury or not) and last year IMO. Also, I dont think DP's and flyballs are factored into the rating system (though the data is provided). Is that correct? Since a 2006 FB wasnt published I decided to wait till the end of this year to get one.

[wildcard]

Regardless of what the numbers say, Jack Wilson is gold glove material, probably the best shortstop in the National League after Adam Everett of Houston. Unfortunately, Jack doesn't hit all that much better than Everett does.

Actually, Jack hit pretty well at the plate in 2004 and 2007, with an OPS+ of 104 and 105 respectively in those seasons. However, in 5 other full major league seasons, his best OPS+ was 77! The Pirates gave him a huge contract after the 2004 season, assuming that he would continue to put up offensive numbers like that and play outstanding defense. Jack has only kept up half of the bargain.

Jack came up through the Cardinals system and seems to hit particularly well against us. I'd like to see him back in St. Louis instead off David Eckstein, but his salary is too high for what he brings to the plate.

Using their metrics, The Fielding Bible ranked Wilson 2nd among shortstops in defense over the 2003-2005 seasons, behind Everett and ahead of Rollins, Furcal, and Neifi Perez. Vizquel was 9th and Jeter was 30th, ahead of only MIchael Young. Here's how they described Wilson's defense.

Wilson will be 30 next year, so he should be good for a couple more seasons before slowing down, unless he's beset by injuries.

Sounds like another good reason for a three way trade where the O's trade Tejada and get back Wilson and Adam Laroche from the Pirates.

[Fairfax Bird]

Who is a better defensive shortstop?

My 85 year old grandmother, a 3 legged pig, and Jay Gibbons.

At least according to some people here.

Watch Miggy day in and day out and tell me has has decent range at SS, which is what that stat is saying. He doesn't. He can't get to a lot of balls that he should be getting too and so I will say again, any stat that has his range as average to above average holds no weight in my opinion.

[Fairfax Bird]

I do not think that the stats are saying the Miggy is that great defensively. However, the ss that are being looked at to replace him are as bad or worse than he is.

I haven't had the chance to watch the Pirates or Cubs that much, but if their SSs have range as bad as Miggy's I don't want them either.

[Fairfax Bird]

verett was assigned a plus-76 for the past three years, well ahead of the Pirates' Jack Wilson (plus-50), who was ranked second. Tejada, at plus-15, ranked 11th. Jeter (minus-64) was 30th, and Rangers All-Star Michael Young (minus-73) ranked 31st and last.

Source

So, that makes him above average defensively. How Jeter continues to get Gold Gloves is beyond me. Don't these people who vote have a conscience?

Wonder how it is weighted. The last two years I don't think anyone can say that Miggy is above-average defensively in terms of range. I think Miggy is great on balls he gets to, but he has bad range.

I would love to know exactly how zone ratings work.