Current team/payroll figures

[Peace21]

Man I wonder sometimes if this team ever started to win again, would some people on this board still try to find things that are negative.

Payroll is another thing this front office keeps close to the vest even if they tell the press that they can't spend over a certain limit.

[DrungoHazewood]

So what point are you trying to make?

Apparently that Angelos and the other partners need to dip into their personal wealth to subsidize the team and run it at a substantial loss to make up for the last 10, 12 years.

Nobody would complain if that happened, but that's just not how North American pro sports work.

[Sports Guy]

So what point are you trying to make?

That common sense flies over his head?

[Art Wing]

"we are worth this much so that is what our payroll should be"??

What Is Spending Addiction - And How Do I Know If I Have It?

“You did then what you knew how to do.

When you knew better, you did better.”—Maya Angelou

The dictionary defines addiction as a means “to devote or surrender oneself to something habitually or obsessively;

behavior that impairs the performance of a vital function(s), a harmful development.” Addiction causes you to lose

your sense of balance and rationality. Beneath all addictions is a longing for immediate gratification--to feel good,

powerful, worthy of admiration and problem-free--and an insistence on ignoring the long-range, self-destructive

implications of the behavior.

If you suffer from spending addiction, one out-of-control shopping spree is never enough. Neighborhood malls and

Internet shopping sites possess a mesmerizing magnetic appeal for you. You give the priciest, most lavish gifts. Your

purchases reflect how knowledgeable you are about all the trendiest brands and designer labels. When you dine out

with friends or business associates, you’re invariably the one who insists on picking up the tab—whether you can

afford to, or not.

In spite of negative consequences that inevitably catch up with you--such as guilt, debt, or feeling ashamed and

secretive about your compulsion to buy things--you find yourself on yet another shopping binge, charging or writing

checks for things you don’t really need and may never even use. You may lie about how much you've spent (to

yourself and to those close to you), conceal price tags and receipts, and do financial gymnastics in an attempt to

juggle your finances and keep up with monthly payment demands. Spending addiction is an attempt to try to “buy”

happiness—to feel admired, to feel accepted, to feel empowered, to push away troubling feelings, like self-doubt or self-disappointment—and can risk ruining everything you hold dear.

[TonySoprano]

The Orioles were 21st in franchise value in MLB in 2010 according to Forbes, and 19th in revenues. They were 23rd in payroll, about $5M behind 20th place.

Where exactly should the roughly 20th-most prosperous team in baseball's payroll be? 10th? 5th? 1st?

In April, 2009, Forbes also listed the Orioles as 5th in operating income, to go along with 19th in revenues.

[TradeAngelos]

Apparently that Angelos and the other partners need to dip into their personal wealth to subsidize the team and run it at a substantial loss to make up for the last 10, 12 years.

Nobody would complain if that happened, but that's just not how North American pro sports work.

Do me a favor and don't put words in my mouth. I don't believe I ever said we need to spend personal money, I was just pointing out the FACT that we have pretty much nothing on the books now or in the future. I also pointed out the fact that we have spent nothing in the way of "large contracts" the past 7 YEARS so don't cry poor for Peter Angelos.

Sports Guy seems to think we have been on a spending spree and now it is catching up to us with all these "bad contracts", and that has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

The notion that our "hands are tied" is one of the more ludicrous things I have ever read here. Using the Brian Roberts contract as an example ranks right up there too.

Maybe someone can breakdown the next 5 years and how much salary we have committed. That should be fun.

In April, 2009, Forbes also listed the Orioles as 5th in operating income, to go along with 19th in revenues.

They also estimated the value of the team at $400 million, when Angelos payed $173 for it in 1993.

That means Angelos has gained an additional $12.6 million every year he has owned the team free and clear.

[Crazysilver03]

They also estimated the value of the team at $400 million, when Angelos payed $173 for it in 1993.

That means Angelos has gained an additional $12.6 million every year he has owned the team free and clear.

Pure profit.

Incorrect.

You forget about inflation. Without knowing the accuracy of this calculator, the $173M in 1993 would be equivalent to $253.64M in 2009 dollars.

[TonySoprano]

Incorrect.

You forget about inflation. Without knowing the accuracy of this calculator, the $173M in 1993 would be equivalent to $253.64M in 2009 dollars.

Fine. $146.36 million /17 = $8.6 million, not including MASN. In the MASN deal with MLB, Pete Angelos was also guaranteed a minimum of $390 million upon sale, so he'll never lose money on his investment.

[Sports Guy]

Do me a favor and don't put words in my mouth. I don't believe I ever said we need to spend personal money, I was just pointing out the FACT that we have pretty much nothing on the books now or in the future. I also pointed out the fact that we have spent nothing in the way of "large contracts" the past 7 YEARS so don't cry poor for Peter Angelos.

Sports Guy seems to think we have been on a spending spree and now it is catching up to us with all these "bad contracts", and that has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

The notion that our "hands are tied" is one of the more ludicrous things I have ever read here. Using the Brian Roberts contract as an example ranks right up there too.

Maybe someone can breakdown the next 5 years and how much salary we have committed. That should be fun.

They also estimated the value of the team at $400 million, when Angelos payed $173 for it in 1993.

That means Angelos has gained an additional $12.6 million every year he has owned the team free and clear.

No offense but you are a moron. I have never even remotely hinted at this..You just can't comprehend simple thoughts.

I have consistently said that PA is the #1 problem with this organization and has been for a while.

[Crazysilver03]

Do me a favor and don't put words in my mouth. I don't believe I ever said we need to spend personal money, I was just pointing out the FACT that we have pretty much nothing on the books now or in the future. I also pointed out the fact that we have spent nothing in the way of "large contracts" the past 7 YEARS so don't cry poor for Peter Angelos.

Sports Guy seems to think we have been on a spending spree and now it is catching up to us with all these "bad contracts", and that has to be the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard.

The notion that our "hands are tied" is one of the more ludicrous things I have ever read here. Using the Brian Roberts contract as an example ranks right up there too.

Maybe someone can breakdown the next 5 years and how much salary we have committed. That should be fun.

Please show us where anything like this has been said on the board?

The "hands aren't tied" and that has been one of the best selling points for MacPhail.

[Prayin4Reign]

He can't. Anyone who thinks this team doesn't have the resources or perhaps better...the capacity for a higher payroll is kidding themselves. SG and others are making Peter Angelos a very happy man.

This is foolish.

What kind of resources does a team have that has an attendance less than 2 million the last few years?

You and Trea are wrong.

The resources have been wasted, there is no doubt about that and because they have been wasted, the Orioles don't have the resources you believe they have. You look at what they SHOULD have and say that is what they have. Hopefully you can figure out that there is a difference.

And also, this is a business...PA has all the right in the world to profit off of that business.

Honestly....I think that's a little short-sighted. If the Orioles put a good product on the field the fan base would be there. It's pretty simple. I'm not saying that because I think it's true...I'm saying that because I know it to be true. The only reason why attendance for the Orioles has gone down DRASTICALLY in the manner it has is because we're not committed to winning. For a good portion of the 90s we were committed to winning, we signed top free agents....we put butts in seats! To sell tickets you have to have a fan base that believes in what your franchise is doing...or have a winning team. Somewhere somehow...this notion of Baltimore being a "small market" team was established. It's comical. The Baltimore Orioles could be the Baltimore Orioles again if more commitment was placed to winning. Ticket sales would skyrocket. This franchise would be relevant again.

On a sidenote....trying to make your argument stronger by calling someone foolish (OK...maybe you didn't call me foolish but the inference was there) or a moron (one of your posts) accomplishes nothing. It only makes you look weaker. And BTW...I like alot of your posts...but those little personal slams don't do you any justice.

[osgolfer]

Fine. $146.36 million /17 = $8.6 million, not including MASN. In the MASN deal with MLB, Pete Angelos was also guaranteed a minimum of $390 million upon sale, so he'll never lose money on his investment.

So what your saying is Angelos shouldn't be making 5.6% on his investment. If I were going to invest that kind of money I sure as hell would want a better return than that. With out checking back he could have done as well with a CD.

[TonySoprano]

So what your saying is Angelos shouldn't be making 5.6% on his investment. If I were going to invest that kind of money I sure as hell would want a better return than that. With out checking back he could have done as well with a CD.

I'm not making a value judgment as to what profit he is entitled. All I'm saying is he hasn't lost money.

[osgolfer]

I'm not making a value judgment as to what profit he is entitled. All I'm saying is he hasn't lost money.

You are correct, and from a fans point of view(which I am) I would be happy if he broke even and put a better team on the field. 8.6 million dollars just doesn't buy that great a player though but would go a long way in the draft.

[TonySoprano]

You are correct, and from a fans point of view(which I am) I would be happy if he broke even and put a better team on the field. 8.6 million dollars just doesn't buy that great a player though but would go a long way in the draft.

There's more leeway for payroll than $8.6 million. You're forgetting that the $8.6 million is based on his initial investment, which is independent of his annual profit/loss. As I noted earlier in this thread, in 2009, the Orioles were 5th in operating income,(revenues - expenses before taxes) at $27.2M. That doesn't include profits, if any, from MASN that year.