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Current team/payroll figures


Sports Guy

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There's more leeway for payroll than $8.6 million. You're forgetting that the $8.6 million is based on his initial investment, which is independent of his annual profit/loss. As I noted earlier in this thread, in 2009, the Orioles were 5th in operating income,(revenues - expenses before taxes) at $27.2M. That doesn't include profits, if any, from MASN that year.

All business's expect to increase in value and that value isn't actually spendable until they are sold. But an operating profit of 27 mil would seem to be excessive for the product he has produced. Not saying it isn't an accurate assessment. I wish he would have spent some of it for better players also. I have been a fan for 40 plus years and can still remember the good times. Hopefully we will soon be talking about good years now. I like the team now. Could it be better, yes but this has been the best offseason in a long time.

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C- Wieters: 400K

1st- Lee: 7.25M

2nd- BRob: 10M

SS- Hardy: 7M(approx)

3rd- Reynolds: 5M

LF- Pie: 420K

CF- Jones: 2M(approx)

RF- Nick: 10.25M

DH- Scott: 6.5M(approx)

Bench/bench candidates:

Izzy- 1.5M

Reimold- 400K

Harris- 1.75

Andino- 400K

Fox- 400K

Tatum- 400K

Rotation:

Guthrie- 5M(approx)

Matusz- 400K

Tillman- 400K

Arrieta- 400K

BB- 400K

Pen:

Koji- 3M

Gregg- 5M

Gonzo- 6M

Accardo- 1.08M

JJ- 1.5M(approx)

Berken- 400K

VDH- 400K

I fully expect a lefty to be signed and added to that group, with VDH likely joining the rotation in AAA or Berken/Accardo to start season on DL.

That puts the current payroll at about 78 million. As I said, I feel they add one more lefty to the pen and one more bench player...I also think they will foolishly add a starter, likely trying to include Harris in the deal to help offset some salary.

I figure the final payroll will be around 85M or so.

Spending that much more on your bullpen than your rotation is bizarre, IMO. "Hey, we think our rotation's going to come up way short of innings, because they're so young. I know! Let's get a bunch of bullpen guys for millions of dollars, as a safety net."

The reason that makes no sense is because - no matter how good your purchased arms may be - they can only absorb so many innings. Other teams have similar or better pens, but solid rotations that are a mix of experience and youth.

This strategy has a very high likelihood of burning out the bullpen. And to think that we're PLANNING on relying heavily on our pen? You should NEVER plan on relying heavily on your bullpen, especially an expensive one. That is a luxury only teams with solid, dependable starting rotations should even consider affording, to me.

Again, I could be wrong. All our cavalry guys could dominate, or hold their own, and chew up 150-200 innings per guy. But I'm kind of doubting it.

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Spending that much more on your bullpen than your rotation is bizarre, IMO. "Hey, we think our rotation's going to come up way short of innings, because they're so young. I know! Let's get a bunch of bullpen guys for millions of dollars, as a safety net."

The reason that makes no sense is because - no matter how good your purchased arms may be - they can only absorb so many innings. Other teams have similar or better pens, but solid rotations that are a mix of experience and youth.

This strategy has a very high likelihood of burning out the bullpen. And to think that we're PLANNING on relying heavily on our pen? You should NEVER plan on relying heavily on your bullpen, especially an expensive one. That is a luxury only teams with solid, dependable starting rotations should even consider affording, to me.

Again, I could be wrong. All our cavalry guys could dominate, or hold their own, and chew up 150-200 innings per guy. But I'm kind of doubting it.

Which is why they are looking for a veteran pitcher to put in the mix. As bad a Millwood was last year he ate innings. I wonder if he wouldn't be a legitimate option this year.

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Honestly....I think that's a little short-sighted. If the Orioles put a good product on the field the fan base would be there. It's pretty simple. I'm not saying that because I think it's true...I'm saying that because I know it to be true. The only reason why attendance for the Orioles has gone down DRASTICALLY in the manner it has is because we're not committed to winning. For a good portion of the 90s we were committed to winning, we signed top free agents....we put butts in seats! To sell tickets you have to have a fan base that believes in what your franchise is doing...or have a winning team. Somewhere somehow...this notion of Baltimore being a "small market" team was established. It's comical. The Baltimore Orioles could be the Baltimore Orioles again if more commitment was placed to winning. Ticket sales would skyrocket. This franchise would be relevant again
.

Thank you Captain Obvious...Where I have said anything different? My point was that because they have wasted resources over the years, we have put poor teams on the field and are not able to generate the resources we should have...resources that would be there if we were winning. Since that has happened, the Orioles can only afford to pay so much on their payroll for 2011. That should be obvious to anyone. Start to win, bring the fans back, profits go up and payroll should go up. All of this is common sense.

Just because you think the Orioles have the resources doesn't mean they do. They should have them and the potential is there for them to be there but they aren't there now. PA wants to win by doing as little as he can.

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Which is why they are looking for a veteran pitcher to put in the mix. As bad a Millwood was last year he ate innings. I wonder if he wouldn't be a legitimate option this year.

I'm all for that.

And the main reason I don't like seeing four of five starters making $400K per year, all at the same time, is precisely because I DO value them, and believe they all have serious potential. That calls for handling them sensibly; not throwing them to the wolves.

I can see the argument that they've all proven themselves in the minors. But even if that's true, I still think Arrieta and Tillman could both use more seasoning. That's why I'd have zero problem with a veteran coming in to take one of the five slots. It would both increase the motivation for whichever guy goes down (or to the pen)... while taking some innings pressure of the still-youthful rotation.

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Its exactly in the area where they should be right now. The fact that you don't get that is mind boggling.

Now, if you want to argue that the resources should have been used better in the past so that they could spend more now, that's fine...But based on what has happened, no one should have expected the payroll to be much more than 80-85 million. It was never realistic to expect more than that going into the 2011 season.

I think you have agreed with me before, but I have always said that the Orioles year-to-year payroll should fall somewhere between $85 and $105 million.

Some years it may be more, some years it may be less. But if you look at a five year window more often then not it falls within that range.

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Spending that much more on your bullpen than your rotation is bizarre, IMO. "Hey, we think our rotation's going to come up way short of innings, because they're so young. I know! Let's get a bunch of bullpen guys for millions of dollars, as a safety net."

The reason that makes no sense is because - no matter how good your purchased arms may be - they can only absorb so many innings. Other teams have similar or better pens, but solid rotations that are a mix of experience and youth.

This strategy has a very high likelihood of burning out the bullpen. And to think that we're PLANNING on relying heavily on our pen? You should NEVER plan on relying heavily on your bullpen, especially an expensive one. That is a luxury only teams with solid, dependable starting rotations should even consider affording, to me.

Again, I could be wrong. All our cavalry guys could dominate, or hold their own, and chew up 150-200 innings per guy. But I'm kind of doubting it.

The only reason this is happening is because the rotation is so young. The Orioles want to add a starter, but they aren't going to add someone simply to add them.

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The only reason this is happening is because the rotation is so young. The Orioles want to add a starter, but they aren't going to add someone simply to add them.

I'm just saying I would personally feel better if we landed a proven veteran to the rotation to take some pressure off. And I assume AM is reading this so please, AM, do it for me, big guy.

If we don't add a vet, I guess we can always do it later, but hopefully not when we're desperate b/c we've burned out our youngsters and bullpen. There are trades, etc., to be had down the road and AM seems pretty darn good at the late-game acquisitions. A Millwoodian deal would please me greatly.

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Payroll has exceeded $85 million only one time in team history, 2007. Only three times has it exceeded $80 million. The average payroll for the last five years is $76.4 million. It has been below $75 million in eight of the last ten years.

Dollars in millions

2010	$81.61 2009	$67.10 2008	$67.20 2007	$93.55 2006	$72.59 2005	$73.91 2004	$51.62 2003	$73.88 2002	$60.49 2001	$74.28 2000	$83.14 1999	$70.82 1998	$70.41 1997	$54.87 1996	$48.73 1995	$40.84 1994	$37.67 1993	$26.91 1992	$21.00 1991	$14.63 1990	$10.04 1989	$8.18 1988	$10.00 

(Reference)

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Payroll has exceeded $85 million only one time in team history, 2007. Only three times has it exceeded $80 million. The average payroll for the last five years is $76.4 million. It has been below $75 million in eight of the last ten years.

Dollars in millions

2010	$81.61 2009	$67.10 2008	$67.20 2007	$93.55 2006	$72.59 2005	$73.91 2004	$51.62 2003	$73.88 2002	$60.49 2001	$74.28 2000	$83.14 1999	$70.82 1998	$70.41 1997	$54.87 1996	$48.73 1995	$40.84 1994	$37.67 1993	$26.91 1992	$21.00 1991	$14.63 1990	$10.04 1989	$8.18 1988	$10.00 

(Reference)

Whoa! What has happened since 1996 - when we had a team of All-Stars like Cal, Alomar, Raffy, Brady, Mussina, Erickson, Key, et al - that has exploded payrolls so much? And how have the Orioles fallen so far behind teams like the Yankees and Sox in terms of revenue and payroll? Was it totally related to their TV deals? Some big change in free agency? I don't get it.

A brief history of how all this happened would be an awesome thing to have somewhere on the OH.

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Payroll has exceeded $85 million only one time in team history, 2007. Only three times has it exceeded $80 million. The average payroll for the last five years is $76.4 million. It has been below $75 million in eight of the last ten years.

Dollars in millions

2010	$81.61 2009	$67.10 2008	$67.20 2007	$93.55 2006	$72.59 2005	$73.91 2004	$51.62 2003	$73.88 2002	$60.49 2001	$74.28 2000	$83.14 1999	$70.82 1998	$70.41 1997	$54.87 1996	$48.73 1995	$40.84 1994	$37.67 1993	$26.91 1992	$21.00 1991	$14.63 1990	$10.04 1989	$8.18 1988	$10.00 

(Reference)

2010 includes Lugo's $9+ million dollars, with the Orioles only on the hook for $400K and Millwood at $12M, with the Orioles only on the hook for $9M

EDIT: and what's the story with Matusz? Cot's also has his salary over $1M on their 2010 spreadsheet. It was my understanding that his 'salary' is ~$400K and that the 7 digit number comes from his bonus averaged over 4 years???

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2010 includes Lugo's $9+ million dollars, with the Orioles only on the hook for $400K and Millwood at $12M, with the Orioles only on the hook for $9M

EDIT: and what's the story with Matusz? Cot's also has his salary over $1M on their 2010 spreadsheet. It was my understanding that his 'salary' is ~$400K and that the 7 digit number comes from his bonus averaged over 4 years???

2005 includes $10 million that MacPhail paid to unload (red flag) on the Orioles. Real payroll then has been in the $60 million - $75 million range, nine of the last ten years.
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