nadecir

February 15, 2020

3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

Why are you so hung up on "exactly"? Are you one of those folks that think a little bit of cheating is fine but too much is wrong?

Cheating is cheating. If I have a problem with what the Astros did than I should have an issue with a pitcher using pine tar to increase his grip. They are both cheating.

So I take it that you would be good with it if the Orioles cheated exactly the way the Astros cheated? I got it. I will just disagree and leave it at that.

February 15, 2020

2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I fully expect every team in every sport to at the very least push the borders when it comes to the legality of their actions.

To me cheating is cheating and what the Astros did is not worse than what the Red Sox did, what the Indians did or what the Phillies did.

Do you have an issue with Earl Weaver?

So you would be ok with it if the Orioles did exactly what the Astros did? I would not. How about I get a yes or no on that question?

Let's not discuss generalities. I certainly would have an issue with Earl Weaver if he was involved in exactly what the Astros did.

February 15, 2020

1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:

That is some hardcore goalpost moving.

Please answer my question.

So are you okay with the Orioles cheating like this? Or do you want someone in the organization to come clean and say something if the Orioles are undoubtedly cheating?

February 15, 2020

5 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:

I'm sorry did Fiers say something when he was with the Astros that I missed? From what I read I thought he kept his head down, did his job and collected his ring.

I'm pretty sure he waited until he was with a division rival before having a case of guilt.

At least Feirs had the guts to do it, even after leaving the Astros. I bet he wishes he would have spoken up earlier.

Justin Verlander admits he should have spoken up earlier.

"“It’s been difficult,” Verlander said Thursday at The Ballpark of the Palm Beaches. “Showing up in 2017. And once I spent some time there, understood what was happening. I didn’t — I wish I had said more. Looking back, I can’t go back. I can’t reverse my decision. I wish I had said more, and I didn’t, and for that I’m sorry.”

So are you okay with the Orioles cheating like this? Or do you want someone in the organization to come clean and say something if the Orioles are undoubtedly cheating? Everyone who knows about cheating and stays silent condones it.

How would you feel if you were a fan of the 2017 Dodgers instead of the Orioles? Other teams, players and fans paid a price for the Astros cheating. Without a whistleblower, this cheating would have continued.

February 15, 2020

Thank God that Mike Fiers doesn't believe in this attitude. The Astros may have won more tainted World Series.

If the Orioles were doing or have done something like this, I would want someone in the organization to call them out publicly as soon as they knew. Whether it be an intern or a player, a whistleblower is one that has enough integrity to say I do not want to be involved in an organization that cheats no matter what happens to me. History shows time and time again that condoning cheating or other unethical behavior with silence can lead to some very bad consequences.

I do imagine that some Astros hitters will be keeping their heads down this season though.

February 15, 2020

Given the Astros cheating, there are questions at this point of how much Elias' player analysis tactics are effective. The scandal taints everything and everyone involved involved with the Astros, along with their player development personnel and tactics.

I know Elias has said this: “But I have said, and I will say, that my role there was running the minor leagues, running the international scouting, running the draft,” Elias told Connolly. “And I was very focused on it. I’ll leave it at that.” That's not an answer to the question of whether Elias knew about the Astros cheating while he was there.

I am sure a reporter will ask Elias if he ever knew of "codebreaker" or the "dark arts" while with the Astros. It's pretty obvious that more Astros personnel knew about the cheating then have been named.

"The Houston Astros cheating scandal reportedly went well beyond banging on a trash can during home games and also was used on the road from 2017 through parts of the 2018 season. Details of Houston's "Codebreaker" program were revealed in a report by Jared Diamond of the Wall Street Journal on Friday that showed the extent of the team's cheating as well as the depths to which then-general manager Jeff Luhnow was involved.

Accord to Diamond, Luhnow was approached by a team intern in 2016 with a presentation on an Excel-based application that could decode signs from opposing catchers. The program, named Codebreaker, was routinely referred to as the "Dark Arts" among Astros employees, per a previously undisclosed letter MLB Commissioner Rob Manfred sent to the team.

Manfred had called the cheating scandal "player-driven" in his report on the scheme. However, Diamond's report casts doubts on that notion, demonstrating Luhnow and the Astros analytics team were in on the efforts."

https://bleacherreport.com/articles/2875319-astros-use-of-codebreaker-in-cheating-scandal-detailed-in-new-wsj-report

"Luhnow’s tenure in Houston was defined by an all-knowing front office where information was king, and the ability to place a value on every single aspect of the organization. The idea that he was unaware of such an elaborate scheme, if not intimately involved, is laughable, yet Luhnow’s official statement in response to his suspension and subsequent termination by the Astros was defiant, insisting “I am not a cheater” and “I did not know rules were being broken.”

Sure.

Baltimore Orioles general manager Mike Elias was assistant general manager under Luhnow in 2017. When he left for Baltimore in 2018, Elias brought Astros’ director of decision sciences Sig Mejdal with him. Understandably, Elias would like to distance himself as much as possible from the scandal.

“I am confident that group that’s here that came from Houston will not be connected to or implicated in the sign-stealing situation in Houston,” Elias told reporters at Orioles fan fest last weekend.

There’s reason for Elias to be confident that that connection will never be officially drawn. Major League Baseball has demonstrated they won’t pursue anything unless its feet are put to the fire. It took them two years to thoroughly investigate the Astros, and only then after a player (Mike Fiers) went on record to disclose the scheme. Manfred’s report went out of its way to avoid placing blame on the front office. Now we know that Houston’s front office was integrally involved, and it’s difficult to believe that MLB didn’t.

https://www.sbnation.com/mlb/2020/2/13/21131563/astros-cheating-hubris-jim-crane-rob-manfred-mlb

My question is this. Would Angelos have even hired Elias if the extent of the Astros cheating scandal was publically known before Elias was hired?