The Goob
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Just now, DirtyBird said:
Don't forget Eve Rosenbaum
Agreed. It is the whole organization. Hyde for me also does not get enough credit. But the first hire was the most important, Elias and the first person he hired was Sig. I also think we will see a huge impact from the International Scouting Director in the next 2-3 years. It is just unreal that if a baseball fan could pick any team today to be a fan of for the next 5-10 years they would almost have to pick the Orioles.
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Several years ago I changed my profile pic to a press photo of Mike Elias after he was hired. I hoped that it would the start of a sea change for the organization. I loved his background, his local ties and the way he spoke and thought about the game. I read the Astros book that featured Elias and Sig and was excited about what they could do for the team I have loved for 45+ years. And never in my wildest dreams could I have ever envisioned the team that they put on the field yesterday.
GRod - 2018 first round pick, not an Elias pick but the way he was developed in this system would have never occurred in the past
Adley - 2019 first round pick, the no brainer pick but the first made by Elias and the true pivot point for the organization, the culture change the day he was called up
Gunnar - 2019 second round pick, the most talented player on the team and one of the top ten in baseball
Kjerstad - 2020 first round pick
Westburg - 2020 competitive balance pick, 30th overall
Cowser - 2021 first round pick, a pick not liked by many at the time because it was under slot and many wanted Kumar Rocker or Jordan Lawler
Holliday - 2022 first round pick, not the no brainer that Adley was because of Druw Jones and Elijah Green among others, Elias and Sig made the right call
The organization can clearly identify and develop talent. For me though it is something more than that. They seem to be able to identify something in the character and makeup of the players that not everyone else sees. All the stories about the cohesion of the locker room, the vibe in the minors, how much these guys pull for each other and get along matters over the course of a long season. I have been a fan for 45+ years and this is without a doubt the best time to be an Orioles fan that I have ever experienced. They were great last year, they will be great this year and this is just the beginning. The change in ownership is just the cherry on top of the sundae. Everyone talks about extension for Gunnar or Adley or Holliday but for me the press conference I hope for the most is an announcement of a ten year extension for Elias and Sig.
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Based on production and results in a small sample size this year and ignoring veteran status I would change the standard lineup a good bit for today:
Adley - C
Gunnar - SS
Cowser - LF
Westburg - 3B
O'Hearn - 1B
Mullins - CF
Santander - DH
Kjerstad - RF
Holliday - 2B
I am also assuming Montcastle will sit again tonight.
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51 minutes ago, spiritof66 said:
Maybe your record of having your assumptions and what seem like reasonable inferences about the Orioles' roster decisions pan out is better than mine. It could hardly be worse. I'm not assuming anything about Holliday beyond that he'll be an Oriole this season (and that human and non-human spellers will on ocassion leave an "l" out of his name). I also think there's a chance that a team with IF injuries would give up something in a trade for Mateo.
I am not sure I agree we will get anything for Mateo. I think if he held any real value to other teams he would already be gone. I also don't think that continuing to not field your best 26 hoping to get something of value for Mateo or Urias makes sense anymore. We a clearly a bat short against LH starters. I guess you can continue to DH Adley and let McCann catch or DH Westburg and have Mateo play 2nd. I just don't think that is good roster construction when you have a player with 647 AAA at bats who had an OPS of .842 last year and is at 1.205 this year, is righthanded and would help fill a need blocked by a player who has clearly been a placeholder for two years. The question is who is the best DH against a LH starter and to me that is Norby.
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1 hour ago, spiritof66 said:
Why would you get rid of Mateo instead of Kemp?
I am assuming that Kemp will go for Holliday soon so he and Mateo would both be gone
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I actually think it is Connor Norby. If you have to sacrifice Mateo to bring him up so be it.
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On 3/31/2024 at 4:12 PM, NashLumber said:
I also drew up a redesign several years ago so Camden Station could be seen. Also, I extended the rooftop bar. In my dreams, I'd love the Hilton taken down to expose the Bromo Tower again, but barring that, here's what I drew.
I added a RF scoreboard, too.
This is an incredible idea. I love the layout and the extension of the rooftop bar. It really gives an even more intimate feel to Camden. I am so glad that we have a new smart ownership group that will oversee this renovation and these type of decisions.
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5 minutes ago, spleen1015 said:
I don't think we want Gunnar leading off against lefties.
Fair. But we don't want Mullins doing it either. So Rutschman is the leadoff hitter and you move Gunnar to 2 or 3. Still the same 1-7 guys IMO. I also think just based on talent Henderson will be much better against LHP this year than he was last year.
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I think Redbeard has the roster pretty spot on. The interesting discussion without Mayo on the team to start the year is what does the lineup look like versus a LHP.
The roster is LHH heavy with Mullins, Henderson, Jackson, Cowser and O'Hearn getting heavy playing time. Additionally, Santander only had 5 of his 28 HRs last year versus LHP. I really think the Orioles will need to find room for Mayo very soon to be the 3B / DH versus lefties or we will be left with Mateo and Urias playing a lot versus lefties especially if Mullins and Jackson struggle against them. I think by the middle of May we should have a lineup that is Henderson - Rutschman - Santander - Mountcastle - Hayes - Mayo - Westburg 1-7 versus a lefty starter.
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Mayo's size and foot speed would seem to indicate that long term his best fit may be at first. Given that Henderson, Holliday, Westburg and even Norby will likely hold down short, second and third this is for the best. Mayo real value is his bat and his power and it plays best at first. Out of all our prospect he and Basallo best fit the profile of the typical 1B/ DH type.
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We have made it through about half of spring training and are now three weeks away from real baseball. I spend more of my mental energy than I care to admit thinking about the Orioles lineup, playing time, positional alignment, etc. Two questions for the Hangout. What is your prediction for the Opening Day lineup? If you were the manager and GM and got to write the lineup card with anyone in the organization what would it be?
The expected Opening Day starter for the Angels is either LHP Patrick Sandoval or Tyler Anderson so that will likely have a big impact on the order.
Predicted Opening Day Lineup
Rutschman - C
Henderson - SS
Santander - RF
Mountcastle - 1B
Hays - LF
Westburg - 3B
Urias - DH
Mullins - CF
Holliday - 2B
The lineup if they let me write it
Holliday - 2B
Rutschman - C
Henderson - SS
Santander - RF
Mountcastle - 1B
Mayo - DH
Hays - LF
Westburg - 3B
Mullins - CF
Doing this exercise indicated to me that they need to find a way to keep Mayo. They just seem a RHH short against LHP without him. I strongly considered Cowser in RF with Santander at DH and Mayo at 3B but having Henderson, Holliday, Cowser and Mullins all LHH in the lineup is tough. I don't think ultimately Mayo will make the team out of Spring Training but I hope he is up soon his bat is a huge X-Factor for this team and I believe will be needed against LHP all year. If Holliday struggles against LHH I can see Westburg at 2B some with Mayo / Urias at 3B / DH.
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I have dreamed about a lineup like this for 30 years:
CF - Mullins
2B - Holliday
C - Rutschmen
SS - Henderson
RF - Santander
1B - Mountcastle
LF - Hays
DH - Kjersatd
3B - Westburg
Bench - O'Hearn, Mateo, Urias, McCann
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It is amazing how little I care about this. Not because it doesn't matter but because I trust whoever Elias and his staff put into position will be successful with Holt and the infrastructure built around them. Prior to Elias this would have been a huge deal because I would have been holding out hope that a Ray Miller or Leo Mazzone could come in, bring their tools and philosophy and fix the problems our pitching had. A small thing but speaks volumes to me about how far this organization has come in the last several years.
Man what I would give to see what this organization structure could have done with pitchers like Jake Arrieta, Eric Bedard, Dylan Bundy, Adam Loewen, Brian Matusz, Zack Britton, Zach Davies. So much talent was wasted largely through ineptitude of the organization.
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1. Holliday - SS
2. Rautschman - C/DH
3. Henderson - 3B
4. Mayo - 1B/DH
5. Kjerstad - RF
6. Cowser - LF
7. Basallo - DH/1B/C
8. Westburg - 2B
9. Bradfield - CF
Bench - Catcher, Ortiz,
The depth and athleticism of this lineup is phenomenal. Minus Bradfield and Basallo, adding Santander/Hays, Mullins and Mountcastle I would not be surprised that this is the lineup by the end of this year.
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Of the guys listed I would prefer ERod over anyone especially if you could get him for 4 not 5 years. Will be 31 next year has a decent strikeout rate, gives up less than 1 HR per 9 and is lefthanded and has at least pitched in the postseason although the results were not very good. Was dominate early in the season before he got hurt. If the Orioles see something from before the injury that they think can be repeated and sustained I would love to have him in the rotation.
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I would hope that by opening day some of this is settled via trades. One thing that is striking to me (and it is not a one year fluke) is that the team that out homers their opponent in the postseason this year is 17-2. While we need to play well in the regular season I would want to build a team that has the best chance to be successful in the postseason. In Camden I think that means an emphasis on power and preferably left handed power and pitching that limits homers. I think we have a good start on the pitching with Grayson and Bradish. Bradish was especailly good giving up 0.7 HR/9. Third in all of baseball. Build a pen that limits homers, add one more starter that fits this profile and I would feel good about the staff.
With this goal in mind the locks to me for position players would be Henderson 3B, Holliday SS, Mayo 1B/DH, Santander RF/DH, Kjerstad RF, Rautschman C, Mullins CF
That leaves Westburg and Ortiz for 2B, Hays and Cowser for LF, O'Hearn and Mountcastle for 1B/DH. I would prefer Westburg, Cowser and O'Hearn and would look to trade Hays, Mountcastle and Ortiz.
The lineup could look like this:
Mullins - CF
Holliday - SS
Rautschman - C
Henderson - 3B
Santander - DH
Mayo - 1B
Kjerstad - RF
Cowser - LF
Westburg - 2B
Bench - McCann, O'Hearn, Urias, 5th Outfielder
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My opinion for a while has been that it is 3B Henderson, SS Holliday, 2B Westburg and 1B Mayo with Ortiz as the utility guy pushing Mateo, Urias and Mountcastle off the roster as early as this offseason.
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6 minutes ago, Pickles said:
Is that controversial?
Purely as a player, Anderson was at least Jones' equal.
Agree the question was best Orioles. Put aside questions about how he did it but it is hard to argue that Anderson wasn't as good or likely better than Jones
Jones - .277/.317/.454/.771, 106 OPS+, 97 SB, 32.6 WAR
Anderson - .256/.362/.425/.787, 109 OPS+, 315 SB, 35 WAR
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28 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
Top 20 Oriole of all time?
Great Topic - Simple Answer is Yes
1. Ripken
2. B. Robinson
3. Palmer
4. F. Robinson
5. Murray
6. Weaver
7. Mussina
8. Powell
9. Blair
10. Grich
11. Anderson
12. Jones
13. Belanger
14. McNally
15. Singleton
16. Machado
17. Markakis
18. Roberts
19. Mora
20. Bumbry
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This is a really interesting topic. I would say within the organization based on their talent today I think the follow are potential future All-Stars:
Rutschman, Bautista, Mullins, Henderson, Rodriguez and Cowser from the major league roster
From the minors I would say Holliday, Kjerstad and Mayo are that type of talent to be future and hopefully multiple time All Stars.
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10 hours ago, banks703 said:
I’ve seen a lot of both of them in the minors. Gunnar at 19 was pretty advanced defensively and a lot further along than is Holliday. Holliday’s arm is never going to catch Gunnar’s and Gunnar has more range. The thought has been that Gunnar outgrows the position, which may happen.
From the amount that I’ve seen of both of them, it’s my opinion that Gunnar has a better chance to stick at SS than does Holliday. That’s me assuming that Joey Ortiz gets moved because he’s better defensively than everyone else in the system.
I agree with this. I think Gunnar is the most likely of the two to be the SS. But don't completely discount Ortiz actually being the long term SS. He is the best defensively by all accounts and now has a .337/.399/.549 slash line in nearly 200 AB in AAA. I could see Gunnar outgrowing SS and it being Gunnar at 3B, Ortiz at SS, Holiday at 2B and Westburg/Kjerstad at 1B.
Holiday said on the Adam Jones Podcast a week or so ago that he grew up as a second baseman. I sure he was switched to SS because of draft status and rankings always favoring a SS over a 2B
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Actual lineup for tonight
LF - Hays
C - Rautschman
DH - Santander
3B - Henderson
CF - Hicks
1B - Urias
2B - Westburg
RF - McKenna
SS - Mateo
I prefer Mullins playing and just don't understand what McKenna is even doing on the team at this point.
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3 minutes ago, Just Regular said:
Tonight will probably be our first Gunnar + Westburg lineup....vs. a LHP, Gunnar is usually down some.
Thoroughbred v. thoroughbred....who do you guess will bat higher?
I bet Gunnar is higher. I would go with this lineup:
CF - Mullins
C - Rautschman
1B - Santander
LF - Hays
RF - Hicks
3B - Henderson
DH - Urias
2B - Westburg
SS - Mateo
I didn't realize until I went through this exercise that we are really a RH bat short against a lefty. Mountcastle (1.017 versus LHP this year) if he is right would actually help this team. It would push Santander to DH, Henderson to SS and Mateo out of the lineup.
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Versus LHP - 1B - Santander, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias
Versus RHP - 1B - O'Hearn, 2B - Westburg, SS - Henderson, 3B - Urias
To me Frazier, Mateo are bench players at this point and nothing more
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Yesterday's Lineup - Thank You Mike Elias and Sig Mejdal
in Orioles Talk
Posted
No doubt they get credit for O'Hearn, Urias, Mateo, etc. I focused on the draft picks because plenty of teams have sucked for many year and had high draft pics but not gotten these type of results. It is truly astonishing to see the depth of talent in the organization. I don't live in Maryland anymore but obviously wear an Orioles hat most places I go and the amount comments I get from fans of other team about how much they respect the team and their players would really surprise people. It is nearly everyday.