thatbearflies
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Posts posted by thatbearflies
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14 minutes ago, Philip said:
Your comment, overall, was splendid, But my rebuttal to this sentence is that the tough questions are not being asked, and most questions are not being answered at all.
I am perfectly willing to hear a difficult answer, but I am impatient with a non-answer, and I am impatient with the beats for not asking meaningful questions.
Roch is a shill, And I find it annoying that he keeps insisting that he is an unbiased sports journalist when he is nothing of the sort, but I understand given his role as an employee of the team that he has to be a propagandist.
But Connolly, Meoli and the gang are not employees and are free to delve deeper. They don’t.
I know what you mean about Roch. I don't think I would call him a shill, but he definitely engages with the fanbase in a way that is dismissive and sort of "if you are unhappy with 'X' aspect of team, you just can't understand the intricacies as to why that is lacking or the overall strategy." Maybe there are some Roch fans who disagree, but that has always been my read of him, wrong or right.
I think on some level though, the reporting falls to the macro vs micro level as well. So on the macro (national), is it good to see a team clearly not doing everything it can to win, as to improve draft position and expedite the rebuild at the expense of the fans and a professional, competitive product on the field? I think we can all agree, "No." Regardless of how invested you are in the current O's strategy, no one can claim optically that this looks good. However, on the micro level, where maybe you are focused more on the franchise than the overall picture of baseball, I think there is more understanding of what they are attempting to do so, they just want to see that plan executed rather than critiquing the overall philosophy of the plan. But, and what I think people find more satisfying, the tone of the national media is far more harsh and has that "this is unacceptable" tinge to it, where the local has the "yeah it sucks, but just you wait!" While I repeat "just you wait!" to myself every night to help myself sleep, when you see this product right now I don't think it is crazy at all for O's fans to want to hear a local and national chorus of "this is unacceptable."
Sort of a question for you and anyone else who wants to respond obviously, but what are some examples of the questions to Elias, Hyde, or Orioles' ownership in general that when asked they totally dodge the question? I'm asking this in good faith as well because I am willing to call a spade a spade. If they are clearly just tap dancing away or feeding you some word salad to evade, we can all call that out. From the interviews and the articles that I engage with, I usually feel the answers are corporately stated, but do address the question and speak to a consistent messaging. But I live in Pennsylvania now, not Maryland, and I may not be engaging with the same stuff that is disappointing you all so, I am willing to take a look.
And final thing because I am a chef of word salad myself, I hope you didn't take the "unable to hear the answers they give" portion as being pointed at you. You seem to engage with everything in good faith so, I'm enjoying reading your responses and others in this post as well.
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24 minutes ago, Philip said:
That’s a good question what would have done for me is demonstrate honesty and accountability. I hate it when the guys stand in front of the media and say everything‘s fine, or they say everything is not fine in a way that makes you think they are saying everything is really fine.
If Buck had said, “ well I really expected Tillman to be full speed and Dan and I couldn’t get together on some solid free agent signings.” Or something to that extent, it wouldn’t have changed anything but it would have had a refreshing air of honesty that would give me more faith in the organizations ability to fix the problem moving forward.
But no matter what, there is interpretation that you are making on the manager or GM's answers. For instance, I don't really see them dancing around questions when they are asked. They seem to fully acknowledge the poor performance of the pitching staff and underperforming players in general. There was even an instance on MASN where one of the commentators was trying to nicely refer to Maikel Franco's poor play and he was cut off by the other guy who said, "Bad. The word you are looking for is bad." Now, they don't call that player trash or call for launching them into the sun, but I don't think that is what anyone expects them to say. When we talk about Elias, if you disagree with the underslot strategy (just using "you" figuratively, I don't know your individual stances), should they just write weekly articles reminding everyone how much they disagree and this is so wrong, the team is doomed? Oriole personnel are giving corporate answers, which I understand that we as fans want something more blunt, but let's examine the example that you provided.
So if Buck said, “ well I really expected Tillman to be full speed and Dan and I couldn’t get together on some solid free agent signings,” there is absolutely zero percent chance that anyone on this board would have reacted with "well at least they were honest, that's refreshing." The overwhelming reaction would be that the GM and manager are openly not on the same page and that the organization is more dysfunctional than we even assumed. The house would be on fire and there would be "Hot" threads all over that Orioles talk page. There would be immediate calls for terminations and demanding of new personnel. Now, your reaction to that might be "good," but no organization is going to expose itself in that way and on top of that, I don't think throwing the GM under the bus for the team build is going to instill any confidence in that manager or the organization. Not to mention if you are the players.
As for the politics example you gave, the only real thing I would say to that is a reminder that we are talking about how a GM plans to rebuild a sports franchise. Ultimately, I have seen some solid discussion on this board for people who think Elias is too lackadaisical with the major league product, I've seen logical arguments that the way he is currently doing it is totally fine. We all have varying disagreements with the way the team is ran whether it is Elias, Duquette, McPhail, etc. I take Frobby's approach, just don't engage with the content if you feel that what they are doing is so egregious and malfeasant, but I think this "we all need to take stand" type mentality is sort of losing the plot of what we are talking about and the gravity of what we are talking about. Everyone in this thread, if not the entire board, is frustrated with the major league performance and we all have our opinions, timelines, etc. You are posting right now because you only want to see the team do well, but I don't think the methods mentioned in the thread are going to change anything besides make Baltimore a small market team with a toxic media and fanbase environment.
And I don't want this team seem like we are arguing for nothing but soft media. You can ask tough questions that need to be elaborated on, but we the fanbase also need to be willing to hear the answers, even if it is something we don't like or if it is not phrased how we want it. Hell, that's the point of this board in some ways. If you hear Elias talk about his draft strategy and how he thinks the rebuild is going, and you totally disagree, come make a thread. I read opinions I disagree with all the time on here, but sometimes, there is a damn good argument to go along with it and totally see where they are coming from. Someone is going to read what I just wrote and totally disagree with it. But I don't think our collective leadership has been anywhere near as evasive on difficult questions as it is being portrayed, but I think the level of frustration has made it so for parts of the fanbase, they can't hear it. Whether or not that is justified is up to the individual, but we can all disagree with the course we are on, but that is the game plan they are working toward executing. For all our sakes, I hope it works out.
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5 hours ago, connja said:
Are we at the point in the season where it's OK to root for the L now? While yesterday was painful to lose both ends in the final inning, I can't say I was mad.
Root for the W, but when the L inevitably comes take solace in the silver lining so we don't cry ourselves to sleep. I can genuinely say I was mad yesterday, but after moving through my stages of grief, I have that silver lining to explain to all my baseball fan friends that though it looks like I took nothing but Ls the past couple days, really they are Ws. I'm practically addicted to copium at this point.
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1 minute ago, Pushmonkey said:
They have? When?
Surprisingly, the MASN podcast has been critical of players, debates the attention to major league product, talks about disappointing minor league players who were supposed to be quality, how bad the trades in 2018 were, etc.
Baltimore Sun pretty regularly talks about the disappointing performances of the team.
Now don't get me wrong, they are not raging the way the fanbase is and even me responding the way I did, isn't really to undermine your point of this thread. When you see a performance like we saw this weekend, this is so below major league quality that you want to see local media applying pressure to the team. That's what I think they DON'T do. I think they cover the team, discuss disappointment in players, performance, but like OsFanSinceThe80s said, it's nothing like they would receive in Boston/New York.
So it is there, but it is not the pointed, sharp, disgusted criticism that many are looking for right now. But as the husband to a Canadian, with all Blue Jay fan in-laws, I wouldn't mind a little blood in the water for the local media to match how I am feeling right now!
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I've seen regular criticism of the team and individual performances from local media sources (including MASN), but it typically isn't laced with profanity and/or irrational knee-jerk terminations and call ups of the entire minor league rosters so people choose to ignore it.
But yes, even MASN has questioned whether enough attention was put into the major league product this season. I think fans just want to see their vitriol echoed and if it isn't, they are shills.
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Anyways, good luck to Josh Rogers. Maybe he will get some consistent playing time and prove to have some value for the Nationals. So far, there is nothing about his performance that really should warrant a post lamenting us moving on from him. If he can prove to be a major league quality pitcher, congratulations to him, but I don't think the O's missed out on an essential part of an upcoming Os playoff team.
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But again, I am sure it’s because Elias is smarter than us.
QuoteOh my god, another error on Jones! I am sure I am missing something because Elias is always smarter than everyone else.QuoteFunny they use the disrespect angle like the Ravens do, but when it comes to selecting the best player available, no thang, Elias must be a genius for not taking BPA….I'm starting to notice some consistent trends in your posts.
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Good performance by Chris Ellis today. RISP still incredibly disappointing, but he gave us a great start for the day. Take the W!
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The only thing I am thinking about right now is the at bats they had with RISP and still failed to get the big hit. We know the inconsistency of the bullpen exists so, they have to start capitalizing on our chances that they do create. It's a difficult game, but got to take advantage and create as much cushion as possible with the caliber of pitching that they bring to the field every day.
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I hope whoever has that whistle has an absolutely terrible evening.
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Between this and some of these New Era hats (prototypes?) you see from time to time, really concerned about the design standards for some MLB merchandise these days.
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This is all just a "feeling" about a team, but, while I loved the 2014 season, that 2012 team was so fun. 2014 just felt more like a powerhouse and I felt like we were the favorite to win every single night, but there was something about the grind of that 2012 team (and somehow only a 3 game difference between the two!).
It was scrappy, it seemed to have more personality to it. I loved that confidence I felt about the 2014 team, but 2012 just felt like the underdog, good guys breaking through. Sometimes we forget, there was air of fun around Chris Davis. I still remember "Big Game" Joe Saunders (at least that one time!), Miguel Gonzalez (out of nowhere), Nate McLouth, Luis Ayala in those goggles when we made the playoffs... I was a lurker on this board for that season, but I had fun just watching you all talk with my binoculars on the rooftops.
Like I said, it was all from my subjective view of things and I loved 2014, but 2012 felt like a team that wasn't supposed to be there, was there. If there was every a season to reinvigorate my love of the Orioles and remind me why I love baseball so much over the last decade, it's 2012 for me also.
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Really disappointed to see the limited number of wins to his name when he has that kind of production. Luckily, his other stats speak for him, but when you consistently put out that type of performance it's very disheartening to see that his team was not able to translate that into more wins. Hopefully his next team can take advantage more often.
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4 hours ago, murph said:
You should see this future HOF/ future Cub 3B/SS everyone has been talking about.
It was a reference to not having great, career Oriole type of players to look back on...but yes, I have heard of Machado, briefly - who will also not likely be a long time Oriole.
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Due to my age, I've never really gotten to experience a truly great Oriole. By the time I was old enough to watch intelligently, Ripken was a veteran with a bad back who missed games and often struggled. I only got to see a few seasons of Mussina before he was off to pinstripes.
The best Orioles baseball that I've really gotten to experience is a Brian Roberts, Erik Bedard, Melvin Mora type of player.
So, my random thought is about how I am that guy who didn't see a movie, but nods and smiles when you all talk about players like Brooks.
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I just wanted to share this. I'm a big Andrew Miller fan and was checking out the news of his return, but... Look who is hanging out in the number 2 spot. One of our new favorites. Really speaks volumes to his effectiveness and puts him in company that maybe we didn't even mentally put him in. Is the stuff as eye catching? Maybe not but Bleier has been getting it done and we're on notice. Great work.
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He is a really easy player to root for. I think he really appreciates being part of the major league experience. Obviously, I hope that he experiences sustained success with the O's, but he will be a player that I pull for no matter where he is at.
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Ryan always struck me as a nice guy who genuinely seemed proud to be an Oriole. His talent may not have always matched his enthusiasm, but I don't look back at Flaherty with any negativity. He was a utility player who could be plugged in almost anywhere.
I've shared a few journalist's tweets about his hot start, but obviously it is partly in jest. He's going to come back to reality, but I'm happy to see the guy have success, even in spurts. At the end of the day, he was a major league ball player, not an elite one, but he was there and contributed. It's more than I can say about myself. I hope he and Markakis have success in Atlanta.
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I guess I am in the minority because it looked fine to me. Now, Manny's hair is a different story...
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The Athletic
in MLB
Honestly, I respect the work of many of the writers that they are acquiring, but I don't really consider subscribing. If anything, I am looking forward to reading some of the new voices that will emerge because of all the departures. It's not that their work lacks quality obviously, but there is so much conjecture and uncertainty in baseball that I think at times they may overvalue their own voice. They have inside access and sources, certainly, but the facts are going to be released no matter what and then we all pour over them. I don't think I have ever walked away from a Stark article armed with anything more than a strangely obscure fact about how X player has the most singles on a Wednesday in May where the forecast is sunny skies, but actually turns out to be overcast.
There's plenty of avenues for great analysis, predictions, stats, etc., and The Athletic will probably be one of those sources for a lot of people. However, I've read great content from everyday fans, some great work is produced from this site alone, and even journalists that the article might be the first time you're even seeing their name. I'm confident it will be a quality site and there will probably articles and topics that I wish I had access too, but for now, I'm satisfied with some of the other options and avenues I can follow to get quality, baseball content.
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Emperor - Wrath of the Tyrant
Orioles baseball is back, and so am I!
in Orioles Talk
Posted
I'm glad that you came to this conclusion and have rediscovered your passion as a fan. The definition of press, especially nowadays, is going to be constantly and rapidly evolving and I can understand why after all those years that you felt disrespected in a way. Whether or not you are a member of the press literally has no bearing on how you are perceived by us or the fanbase at large. I never valued anything that you have said more because you were "press." I've read your posts and articles as someone who has been around this team a long time, someone who has conversations with people in the know in the organization, and more importantly, someone who has the passion to provide thoughtful coverage of the Major League team and the farm system that feeds it. PR can use whatever metrics they would like to determine who and what outlets deserve a badge, but that doesn't make your thoughts and analysis any less valid than anyone in that room. Even if the radio segment ended, it doesn't really change anything. You know who you are and what you have done. The Orioles wiped a lot of smiles off of faces the last few years, but as you can see, the energy will always comeback, the fire will always be relit. That applies to the larger fanbase, but even more so to the people who have devoutly follow this team, had it essentially be a part of their identity for decades. Obviously, you earned the right to do whatever you chose moving forward, but even in the face of disrespect, your reputation is set and you don't need a PR department letting you know your worth or act as some barometer to the quality or value to your contributions. Your reputation is set in stone and this board is a testament to that.