DrungoHazewood
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Posts posted by DrungoHazewood
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On the other hand, @Sports Guy's take isn't uncommon because Nick had a 7.4 win season at the age of 24. Following a really good season at 23, and a solid rookie season at 22 after he skipped AA. If you look hard enough in the archives here you can find a post I made in 2009 or 2010 saying Nick had about a 1-in-3 chance of being a Hall of Famer. 14 wins through three seasons and age 24 is a heck of a foundation to build on. Lots of Hall of Famers were behind that pace.
But unfortunately he never had another 3-win season, much less a seven. Age 27 peak is just an average, it's not destiny. But it's pretty rare to have Nick's first three years and then not have much more career value from age 25-36, total. Injuries or whatever reason, he was worth 14 wins from 22-24, and 20 from 25-36. And as much as I wanted him to stay, his years in Atlanta were just treading water, piling up base hits, but a cumulative value above replacement in six years about equal to his 2008 season. Nick was almost certainly not a difference-maker the large majority of his last 8-9 years in the league.
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33 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
When debating these things, it's helpful to have a definition of which to work with. So while I agree with you that guys like Tiger, Trout, Griffey and others haven't had the careers they were supposed to have, that doesn't mean they were underachievers. They just got de-railed...now some of that was their own doing, some of that is just the tolls of playing their sports.
98% of everyone doesn't end up with the career they "shoulda" had. Pete Stanicek shoulda been a 20-year major leaguer. Scott Erickson shoulda won 300 games. Luis Matos and Larry Bigbie shoulda been Kevin McReynolds and Darryl Strawberry (who shoulda been Willie Mays). Basically everyone who was ever on a BA top 100 list should have been a Hall of Famer, but life doesn't work that way. And it's mostly not the fault of the player, or really anyone.
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17 minutes ago, Moshagge3 said:
Are there some kind of eligibility rules that make Markakis eligible but not Jones yet? Markakis last played MLB in 2020, Jones in 2019. If it's based on when they last played the Orioles, why did J.J. Hardy get in before Markakis? I don't get it.
C'mon, this the O's HOF. You get a bunch of old dudes together for lunch and make up the rules based on whatever they want.
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26 minutes ago, Malike said:
I'm not sure if there are any hunters here, but it can be a pretty demanding full-body workout. I suspect Markakis wasn't sitting in a tree stand. I walk miles in rough terrain, good times.
Well, my Dad has a 350-lb buddy who takes his four-wheeler a grueling 3/4th of mile across flat terrain and then laboriously climbs up in the tree stand and sits motionless for four hours. I guess, minus 175 lbs, that could be Nick...
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Basallo is basically on the Machado track. No, he doesn't have the defensive chops, maybe he doesn't stick at catcher. But nevertheless, he's holding his own in AA at 19. Mayo was 20 in AA and hit about as well as Basallo has so far.
I'm with @Sports Guy, I can't really imagine a real scenario where I'm trading him for anything less than an established All Star at a position of dire need. And even then I'd think twice since he has the upside of somewhere in the ballpark of Carlos Delgado or something.
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2 minutes ago, interloper said:
I have never heard anyone call Tiger Woods an underachiever. Injury-prone, sure. Made some poor decisions, yep. But hasn't the guy basically been working at his game since he was 5? It's the injuries that screwed him. He could have given up a long time ago, but he keeps trying to come back.
If he and his Dad actually cared about winning at golf he would have been out there at 2am hitting buckets of balls at the age of 3, instead of the 4am and age 4 that actually happened.
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6 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
And that's okay.
But you once paid $11 for a beer at OPACY, and Nick made a lot of cash, so he shoulda been doing some kind of Navy Seal training and hit 8 points higher for the fans.
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6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
Just a bunch of stats that we give no credence to during a season but when you see stats like that, you really see how nice his career was.
2012 sticks out in my mind because he got hurt and missed the playoffs. But he was exceptionally healthy and played almost every day for 15 years. He's one of only 23 players who had 11 more seasons of 650 PAs.
And tied for 6th all time with 11 seasons of at least 154 games played. That list is Rose, Cal, Raffy, Eddie, Billy Williams, and then some guys tied with Nick, including Pujols, Ichiro, Brooks, Miguel Tejada, Gehrig, and Garvey.
I hate those "six Hall of Famers and some guy" lists, but if you set your mind to it you could put Nick on a lot of those.
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4 minutes ago, justD said:
I'll never forget Markakis coming to Bowie when Hayden Penn was the star player of that time.
The two of them doing pregame sprints, then walking back toward the stands.
It was this huge contrast between a guy who was so obviously a Major Leaguer, and a guy who couldn't get his head out of his a$$. They difference in the way they carried themselves, side-by-side, is something I'll never forget.
Will also never forget meeting his Aunt from NJ in the ladies room one of his first ML callup games; we were both wearing Markakis jerseys, and that was rare because no one knew about minor leaguers back then. She ended up giving me a handful of his rookie cards from various teams, and we cheered for him from the same section all game long. I sooooo couldn't stand that Jay Gibbons was still in LF while Nick sat on the bench.
He was everything I hoped he'd be, and more. Really well deserved.
We all knew Hayden Penn wasn't a major leaguer on draft day, reading that name. Seriously, what kind of baseball name is Hayden Penn?
When did Nick sit the bench while Jay Gibbons played? They were only teammates in 2006-07, and Nick played 308 of 324 possible games those two years.
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2 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
Tiger Woods is both the GOAT and an underachiever. He should have 25+ majors and 100+ wins.
You can be really good and still fall short of what you should be.
Nick should have competed for batting titles. His OBP should have been more 380+ OBP guy vs 350+.
Yea, but in should-have world Luis Hernandez is still the O's shortstop with 18 Gold Gloves.
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4 minutes ago, Orange said:
Congrats Ninck!
All time leader in fielding percentage among MLB right fielders.
I think it's more impressive that he's 8th in games played in RF. The seven ahead of him on the list are either in the Hall, or is Dwight Evans, who should be.
Also 6th in career putouts in RF. 36th in assists, which tends to be biased towards players from 100+ years ago who could play shallower.
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6 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
One of my all time favorite players.
Feel like his career could have been more if he wanted it more too.
You can always speculate that if he'd done more hard-core workouts and training in the offseason and less hunting and fishing that he'd have done better. My own take is that injuries sapped him of the power that might have taken him from above-average guy to possible HOFer.
But I have a hard time calling one of the 500-ish best non-pitchers of all time an underachiever who could have done more.
15 years in the majors. 33 rWAR. $116M. Zero drama. He's a good guy, I really liked watching him.
Even if he's not Gold Glove caliber like Curt Blefary.
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4 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
You put Markakis in the title but not Terry Crowley? Do you not understand how revered Terry Crowley is around here?
Ohh, ohh, can we use this opportunity to dredge up some very old threads about how it's all Terry Crowley's fault that Felix Pie and Freddy Bynum have no plate discipline and never developed right? And how he should be fired just on general principles?
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6 hours ago, LA2 said:
Analysis of the MLB-leading near-.500 xwOBA of Turn-Burn-O'Hearn*:
https://www.mlb.com/news/ryan-o-hearn-is-one-of-best-hitters-in-2024?game_pk=747044
*Epithet from Ben McDonald
So, O'Hearn is a great story, and I'm glad he's an Oriole, and I don't want to talk at all badly about him. But... the headline here is silly. And the article kind of glosses over a few things to make the headline look less silly if you don't peek behind the curtain.
Yes, if you look at xwOBA O'Hearn has great numbers in a tiny sampling of 2024 data. But you have to consider that he's being platooned so strictly that I have to glance at the dugout to see if Earl's come back from the dead. He's 0-for-5 against lefties. Because of this he doesn't have 3.1 PA/G, so he really doesn't even qualify for the batting title or other rate-stat leader boards. Like, presumably, xwOBA.
Most of the players he's being compared to in any xwOBA leaderboards have the disadvantage of facing at least a some same-sided pitchers. Example... he's tied in OPS+ with Colton Cowser. But Cowser has an OPS vs RHP 100 points higher than O'Hearn, dragged down overall by a more pedestrian showing in 28 PAs vs. lefties.
I'm glad O'Hearn is currently 18th in the majors in OPS+, good for him and the O's. But it doesn't need to be faked into more than it is.
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1 hour ago, Bemorewins said:
This is not 2014. Not even close!
We have a young great team, that (on paper) is better than that one. And Mason Miller has FIVE more years of club control after this one. He is not a pending FA like Andrew Miller was. He can help us for multiple seasons.
Yes, but what five years, as it's more-or-less inevitable that he'll be out roughly 18 months for UCL surgery. And perhaps a 2nd after that.
What is are TJ surgery odds in any given season for someone that touches 102? 25%? 33%?
Basallo has a fair shot at getting 8,000, 10,000 or more MLB plate appearances. Miller might not face 2000 batters before his arm is wrecked.
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Also, has anyone determined whether Coby is related to Eddie, who played nine years for a number of MLB teams from 1936-48?
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13 minutes ago, Jim'sKid26 said:
I sense a disturbance in the baseball history Force..... @DrungoHazewood is that you ?
I don't know that this is particularly unusual. It's hard to search on things like that, Stathead doesn't do minor leagues. So I'd have to kind of randomly pick likely cases and check them out.
The first player that came to mind was Don Baylor, who had 42 homers, nearly a 1.000 OPS and over 1200 PAs at AAA Rochester before he turned 23.
Joe DiMaggio played parts of four years for the San Francisco Seals before the Yanks bought him. The PCL was called AA back then, but it was certainly just a step down from the majors. From ages 17-20 DiMaggio hit 74 homers for the Seals. In 1935 at the age of 20 he hit 34 homers, no one else on the team had more than 11, and the median age of the team was 26.
That same year in the PCL Gene Lillard was 21 and hit 56 homers. He had 131 homers at that level by the time he turned 22. Lillard played professionally from 1932-54, missed three years due to WWII, hit 345 minor legaue homers, but went just 8-for-44 in the majors.
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3 hours ago, Orioles Jim said:
I think todays a premium game of sorts and the $12 seats aren’t available.
Would love to be wrong about though, given that I’m playing hooky and walking over to the game today and haven’t purchased my tickets yet.
Right now on StubHub there are tickets for $10.
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4 hours ago, Rbiggs2525 said:
Today on a 1 o’clock game the lowest ticket price is 24$. If I wanted to take my son, 48$ nose bleed seat, 30$ parking, 30$ on 2 meals, 30$ 2 beers. We will have 20,000 fans if we are lucky and 5000 will be Yankees fans.
I mean, you could park in a garage for less and walk a little farther, bring your own food/drink, and take SportsGuy's advice and buy $12 bleacher seats. The costs are ludicrous if you let them be, but there are cheaper options if you take advantage of them.
You can go to the movies and pay $10 for a ticket and $27 for the cubic yard of popcorn and a gallon of soda. But really the popcorn and soda are optional...
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2 hours ago, backwardsk said:
They are 24+ ounces. Still a rip off, but I guess they justify it as “well these suckers will pay $15 for a 16oz Bud Light, let’s try charging more for a larger, better beer.”
I don’t know if it significantly impacts people with more modest incomes. Credit is still plentiful and people aren’t afraid to finance non necessities.
If people are saying "$24 for a beer is insane, but I can always just lump that in with the rest of my crippling credit card debt" the situation may be more dire than I thought.
But then again, I've also read the the average new car transaction in 2023 was $47k, and 10-year loans are not uncommon. So I guess a lot of people figure they can just roll the loans over until they die...
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For most of baseball history there were weird, idiosyncratic things players did and for the most part they were left alone. Because whatever strange stance, windup, delivery or technique that they had, they were in the majors. Clearly it was working.
HOFer Al Simmons was known as Bucketfoot Al because he stepped towards 3rd when batting. If the internet had existed in 1924, the first time he went into a slump the screaming and gnashing of teeth would have been unrelenting. Send this idiot back to the minors, he's never going to hit like that against real pitchers!
Mel Ott, another HOFer, 2nd guy to get to 500 homers, had a leg kick that puts Holliday to shame. Disco Dan Ford batted with his back to the pitcher. He was so oddly situated in the box that teams would play him (a RHH) like a left-handed pull hitter. Luis Tiant had that windup that ended up with his back to the batter in mid-delivery.
The internet coaches would have savaged all of them at the first 3-game slump. I'm half convinced that all those kind of things mostly disappeared just to stop the wailing from the peanut gallery.
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19 hours ago, KojiSplit said:
In regards to the general topic, I’ve stopped buying food and beer at nearly any sporting event I go to as the prices are outrageous especially at the walgreen where it’s $24 for craft beer.
Some parks still offer cheap food and beer like the Braves and when I was at Mariners game few weeks ago, beers were $4,5,6 all game.
Wait... you're telling me the Nats charge $24 for a single craft beer? A few years ago I was in LA and I got a Dodger dog and a beer (I forget what kind) and it was $20 and I thought that was extortionist. I was kind of shocked when the Angels were charging $14 for a beer, and FedEx was long infamous for $11 cans of Miller Light. $24 should make the Nats owners cower in shame. That's basically like a soda machine where a Dr. Pepper is $11. They might as well have some kind of huge goon standing next to the concessions yelling out "hey yous, the beers are $24. If you don't like it, get the hell out of my stadium!"
I have heard that Atlanta is great for food prices. The Mercedes dome... thing... has the cheapest food and drink in MLS. I suppose the Braves are copying them. Good for them.
Aside from Atlanta, this feeds into the narrative that American sports are for upper and upper-middle-class people. Others need not come. Which is fine in a vacuum, fine for some kind of economics class experiment, fine for owners whose primary goal is short-term profits. But what happens down the road when the fanbase doesn't really include people who're not making six figures? Or since nearly all US sports are doing this, that a significant percentage of the population just doesn't regularly go to live sports because it's outrageously expensive? Like I mentioned, me, the wife, and two kids going to DC United on Saturday and the total bill will probably be $350, and that's with discounted tickets and if I can park at Ft. McNair next to the stadium for free.
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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:
Where’d the rampant leg kick speculation come from? Wouldn’t be the first player to have a leg kick, won’t be the last.
If (doing something slightly different) then (clearly this is why is MLB career is off the rails and it must be fixed and clearly the Orioles professional coaches and scouts totally missed it for the past several years and AAA pitchers are helpless to exploit this glaring flaw).
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1 hour ago, Moose Milligan said:
There we go! When was the last time anyone anywhere ever brought up Blondie Purcell?!?
You wouldn't believe the spirited tussles they get into at the 1879 Syracuse Stars fan club meetings. If not for the more gentlemanly rules being adhered to you'd often get into fisticuffs after a long debate about the relative merits of Purcell vs. Kick Kelly.
Markakis being inducted into Os HOF
in Orioles Talk
Posted
You put Ventura in the 1884 Union Association and he wins 57 games just that year. Well, except being a mentally unstable member of a minority group in a less enlightened era, with what was probably a limited grasp of English, I'm thinking he gets shot in a bar the evening after opening day...