DrungoHazewood

Being a man of moderate stature, I think that Hrbek should have been banned from the game for life, forced to play in strange outlaw leagues that passed the hat to pay the players.

Everybody knows that the O's were playing Cal at third in the minors because there was no way he was knocking Kiko Garcia off his position. Kiko owned shortstop.

Highlighting the idea that the Orioles' choices were idiosyncratic and probably driven by cost as much as signing the best player available.

They can really hit... for pitchers. The DH is always optional. Every AL team has always had the choice to not use the DH whenever they want. Edit: Since 2010 the highest OPS+ by any pitcher (min 100 PAs) is 85, by Michael Lorenzen. Zach Greinke, often held up as a great hitting pitcher, has an OPS+ 11 points lower than Ryan Flaherty. The top 10 has guys with sub-50 OPS+es, in the below-Richie Martin range.

It's the human race with access to the Internet. The reaction will be a normal distribution of comments centered on "don't care" but stretching from death threats to deification.

That describes most players who were highly regarded as amateurs. Or even minor leaguers. I'm sure the Mets were disappointed that they didn't get a Hall of Famer out of Burnitz, just one of the top few hundred players in the world.

Right. I think rookie and I think of a 22-year-old kid who's whose 200 ABs in AAA is his only experience in high level baseball. Not someone who's played professionally for eight or 10 years and was one of the best players in the world years before he got to MLB.

Burnitz and Bruce are/were basically the same player. That's the floor for all draftees. Even at 1/1 there are 3-4 guys who never made the majors and another ~10 who only had brief cups of coffee.

In other words, a typical major league player in 2025 as Ks continue to rise and averages fall and nobody does a thing about it.

Absolutely you should. More data is almost always better. Which is why goals like Hanser Alberto needs to show he can hit RHP, or Ruiz needs to have a .330 OBP are hard to tie someone to, since doing those things in 2020 are going to be about as much luck as skill. But if you include scouting reports and 3-4 prior years of data that's much better.

I'm a little surprised the NHL still calls them rookies. Aren't there a fair number of Europeans who come over to the NHL after playing professionally there? It's a little like soccer, where you could play 14 years in Germany, make tens of millions and be a worldwide star, then be a rookie by MLB definitions in the Premier League or MLS or something. That's why they have awards for the best young players instead of rookies. And, yes, at least in England several players have been young player of the year more than once.

Someone like DJ Stewart, or Mountcastle, or Sisco are going to hit .290 with 11 homers in 210 PAs and that'll be nice but we won't have any confidence that it is sustainable.

I think the stabilization points of various numbers would be useful for this thread: “Stabilization” Points for Offense Statistics: 60 PA: Strikeout rate 120 PA: Walk rate 240 PA: HBP rate 290 PA: Single rate 1610 PA: XBH rate 170 PA: HR rate 910 AB: AVG 460 PA: OBP 320 AB: SLG 160 AB: ISO 80 BIP: GB rate 80 BIP: FB rate 600 BIP: LD rate 50 FBs: HR per FB 820 BIP: BABIP “Stabilization” Points for Pitching Statistics: 70 BF: Strikeout rate 170 BF: Walk rate 640 BF: HBP rate 670 BF: Single rate 1450 BF: XBH rate 1320 BF: HR rate 630 BF: AVG 540 BF: OBP 550 AB: SLG 630 AB: ISO 70 BIP: GB rate 70 BIP: FB rate 650 BIP: LD rate 400 FB: HR per FB 2000 BIP: BABIP I've bolded the numbers that are possible to obtain in a 60-game schedule. Most hitters aren't going to get a third of the way to a reliable BABIP, pitchers not even close to that. Really we should only be paying attention to Ks, BBs, HRs, GB/FB. Everything else is as much noise as anything.

I'm sure you're aware that in three-plus MLB seasons Benintendi is already at or above the median value of a #2 overall pick. He will almost certainly be worth more than 80% of #2 picks when all is said and done. People want every high pick to be a cornerstone, but reality is more like 10%. The draft has been going on since 1965, and you know how many HOFers have been taken #2? One, Reggie Jackson, in 1966. The third-best #2 ever is Will Clark, 4th is JD Drew. Greg Swindell and Lloyd Moseby are in the top 10%.

Let's see what the next CBA ends up with as far as free agency rules and other compensation. I think most people agree that the current system where a 30-year-old veteran who hits .280-25-80 can get paid $18M a year, while a 24-year-old who hits .280-25-80 gets paid $550k is kind of messed up. Not only is it not fair to young guys, it means that a fair number of veterans get offered token contracts because there's just no reason to pay $18M for something you can get for under $1M, even if the younger guy isn't quite as good. In a world where everything is scrapped and a new system put in its place there would be some advantage for being a proven, experienced player instead of someone who got hot for three months. But not 30 times the salary. If they fix that, or even take steps to fixing that, there will be less of a penalty for signing free agents.

Yes, I think so. But don't worry about it. Cliff Lee pitched 10 innings in 2012, that's the last time a pitcher pitched into extras. Before that it was 2007. The odds of a 2020 pitcher throwing a 10-inning perfect game are about the same as the odds of Mark Trumbo having two inside the park homers in a game in 2020. Or of Nick Markakis turning an unassisted triple play from RF. Or of Hanser Alberto having a five-homer game.

Are there even any rumors about doing something about that? I don't recall any. They could try any number of things like a draft lottery, or basing pool money on how close you get to .500, or reducing revenue sharing payments if you fall below 70 wins, or a salary floor, or any number of other ideas from the reasonable-but-less-likely-to-be-effective to the very-effective-but-nearly-impossible-to-get-owners-to-agree-to. One of a large number of issues that have plausible solutions, but someone just has to have the fortitude to advocate for and then implement. This one is going to be hard because the rich teams kind of like tanking, because it gives them a bunch of nearly automatic wins and revenues, and nobody thinks big picture or long term for the league or the sport as a whole. And the tanking teams like tanking because it saves them money, allows them to concentrate on development, and there's no fear of anything ever happening to their franchise. At least until they start winning and there aren't any fans left to come back...

I think the Marlins poisoned the fanbase in '98 and '04, and continue to drive them away not so much with tanking but with not having a winning record since 2009. They're in a similar spot to the 2010 Orioles. A seemingly long way to go to relevance, and it's been a very long time since they were any good. And the last/only two times they've ever made the playoffs ownership started selling off their winning team almost before the champagne was cleaned up. I don't really know much about the local attitude towards the Marlins and their owners, but I'd guess there was a negative impact from multiple failed stadium referendums followed by one where (from wiki) "The stadium's public-funding plan led to a protracted lawsuit, largely contributed to the ouster of several local politicians, and triggered an SEC investigation. As revelations of the team's finances and their handling of payroll (both before and after construction) seemed to contradict some of the premises on which the tax-funded-stadium deal were based, the ballpark controversy intensified." There have always been posters here who said they'd rather have the Marlins' model than the O's, because flags fly forever and they got two Series since the O's had their last one. But now more than ever I think that's foolish. I wouldn't be in any way pleased with two trophies that happened two decades ago if the fanbase is dead or dormant, much of the city is bitter or ambivalent towards them, and the team is in the midst of a 1998-2011 Orioles kind of run, and seemingly at the bottom right now.

It's not so much total attendance as it is per-game, which is down about 12-13% from the 2008 high. And that's not particularly alarming, except when combined with the fact that the median age of a baseball fan is 55, and among people under 40 baseball is the 4th most popular sport to watch We are apparently well past the point where nice stadiums have enough of an impact to overcome quality of team. The 90s stadium honeymoon is a distant memory. Miami is a train wreck, and KC, the Orioles, Detroit, Pittsburgh, the White Sox... all kind of struggling with drawing fans. And Cleveland might be most worrying, with a 90+ win team barely clearing 20k a game. Several of these teams' attendances are off by half compared to 20 years ago. Baseball isn't dying, but it has some negative trends it needs to try to address.

Pitcher's Game in Brooklyn Both Kennedy and Carsey were at the their best in the game at Eastern Park this afternoon. Each team made five hits. The Phillies gained their victory chiefly through Kennedy's inability to locate the plate in the fourth inning, when he sent both Hamilton and Boyle to base. Both runners scored. Daily's home-run hit in the eighth inning was a lucky one, the ball bounding into the right field seats. The game was played in 1 hour and 12 minutes, which is the record time so far this season. (Note both the time of the game, which is shorter than the commercial breaks in a typical game today. And the bounce home run, which wouldn't become a ground rule double until 1929 (AL) or 1931 (NL). All such bounce homers still count as such in the official records. Ruth even has a few out of his 714.)

Other interesting notes from the paper that day: A New Dyspepsia Cure Stuart's Dyspepsia Tablets, the new discovery for stomach trouble is claimed to have cured over 6,000 people in the state of Michigan alone in 1894.... the safest and most reliable remedy for sour stomach, chronic dyspepsia, gas bloating, palpitation, headache, constipation, and in all cases where the appetite is poor or the food imperfectly digested. Gossip of the Diamond A voting contest for the favorite player is going on in Washington. The Baltimore contingent voted solidly for Stocksdale. Ed. McKean, the Cleveland shortstops, expect to take a trip around the world as soon as the League championship season ends. Pittsburg fans are busy berating Manager Connie Mack because he let Pitcher Gus Weyhing go without a trial. Mack has experimented with several alleged phenoms since, with disastrous results. Catcher Peitz Seriously Ill (Special to The American) Pittsburg - June 25 - Ex-Manager Buckenberger, of the St. Louis Club, has arrived in the city. He says that he was glad to get away from the St. Louis Club, having been hampered from the beginning of the season. He reports more hard luck for the Browns, Peitz being seriously ill. Cuban Giants Beaten. The famous Cuban Giants*, who have been winning continuously in New York, New Jersey, Vermont, Connecticut, and Pennsylvania towns since their defeat here in May, again went down before plate-cutter Lipp and the wideawake Hagerstown team today. * Drungo's note, the Cuban Giants were one of, if not the first, African American baseball teams. They toured the country in the 1880s and 1890s, enjoying much success against white teams and were declared the "world colored champions" of 1887 and 1888. I thought it interesting that a standard newspaper of 1895 would put accounts of their games in with all the other pro, amateur and college games without remarking on their makeup.

I agree that Manfred handled the cheating situation poorly. It's amazing that dozens of players participated or at least knew about it and none of them get any kind of suspension or fine. We'll just have to disagree on the game length and pacing. And you'll have to tell me what happens the next day after I've gone to bed with two out in the 7th.

He didn't post from 2011 until yesterday, and still has 8,000 more posts than me.

I don't know. Maybe something that was valid in the game of the 1800s that isn't today. Like you get a fresher ball that was more lively, since they rarely replaced the ball back then*. Or maybe there's a better chance you get another inning batting if the game gets called due to darkness or weather? Although in that case I think the game would revert to the last completed inning. Or maybe if you have a big hitting team you want to jump out to a lead before the other team has even batted. * Note in the description of the game that Win Mercer deliberately discolored the ball. That was fine in 1895.

It's a challenge. A graying customer base is not easy to overcome. You don't want to alienate your core, but you also don't want to get to 2035 and find yourself with an average fan age of 68, you're the 5th-most popular sport in the US, and most everyone under the age of 30 doesn't care at all.