MemorialStadKid
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Posts posted by MemorialStadKid
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13 hours ago, BarclaySouthway said:
Not sure what blank check means. Surely, you've got to give him 5 years to get back to .500-ish respectability considering the hole we've dug ourselves and our competition. In six years, if everything breaks just right, maybe we contend?
As far as judging him based on what the minor league system looks like, I think three drafts is fair.
Keep in mind how bad we are right now.
This is the first real light at the end of the tunnel we've seen in a very long while.
Even the awesome run of 2012-2016 felt like the team was living on borrowed time and it expired.
Elias might be a truly talented GM, but no one can fix the Orioles' situation in a year or two or three. I'm not worried about Elias' skill, I'm concerned whether or not the ownership will allow him to make the necessary moves for long-term improvement.
I believe Elias when he says he's serious about putting the team on the right track, I remain unconvinced if he'll be allowed to make those changes.
Putting Elias on notice as if he's a team owner doesn't make a lick of sense.
MSK
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Just now, terphoopsfan said:
MSK you can add '20 & '21, probably '22 also. We're so far behind the 8ball it's ridiculous. I will say we may not have superstars in the system right now but there's hopefully more than enough that fulfill rheir destiny as solid MLB players for us.
No doubt.
It's going to be a friggin nightmare. Between the Red Sox and Yankees showing no signs of slowing down and the Rays steadily improving (again), I don't see a window for Orioles contention for at least 4-6 years. At least.
The one question that has never been answered to my satisfaction is how could owners of a MLB franchise ignore what other successful franchises have done for decades - and not only ignore - but do the EXACT OPPOSITE to the point where they have a historic losing season with no signs of a rebound for seasons to come?
I cannot understand why the ownership has allowed the team to falter to this degree.
Elias has NOTHING to do with that and should not be held to any kind of immediate scrutiny unless he makes the same types of decisions.
MSK
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Mr. Elias will not be the cause for the Orioles win-loss record in 2019.
There's only a small group of people who should be held responsible for that.
Any other conclusion is a waste of animus.
MSK
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Way too early for gripes.
Mr. Elias is metaphorically tasked with raising the rotted hulk of the pieces of the Titanic off the ocean floor, then putting it back together again and then somehow making it not only seaworthy, but a top-of-the-line vessel.
The Orioles have been running on spit, glue and wires for over 25 years with no true organizational philosophy and no plan for sustained success. Many former coaches and players often remark that their new teams have a system in place, where the Orioles do not/did not (Leo Mazzone repeated this on multiple occasions).
I am saddened that the Orioles will be a horrible team for a few years after tasting those morsels of success from 2012-2016. One thing I refuse to do is be unnecessarily critical of a guy who has a thankless MLB gig and will work in a situation where the ownership is in a shaky place and there's no impact player/franchise player on the horizon.
Elias isn't responsible for creating this mess. He should only be judged on what he does.
And as of right now, he hasn't done anything.
MSK
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Post and my response were moved to the rant section.
Sorry weams, I hope my post doesn't break any rules.
MSK
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Many of the replies here miss the point because some White Americans don't get that being Black in America is deeply problematic because of our complicated history.
So whenever these conversations arise, we get similar responses about:
1) guilt/lack of guilt for slavery
2) what privilege actually means
3) how people should just keep their politics out of the sport
4) why Blacks don't play baseball and why it's not a "problem"
I just want to share something that happens often to me.
When I see a police officer, even though I've never committed a crime, been arrested and am pretty much a productive citizen of the U.S., I become afraid that this could be my last day on Earth.
White men have the privilege of knowing that they can go pretty much anywhere they like, whenever they like and can say anything on their mind.
There are places I cannot go. Things I cannot say. People do not see me as a PERSON, they see me as a symbol of all that's wrong with society.
That's the initial interaction when I deal with Whites. I have to constantly prove all the negative things that I am not before given the benefit of the doubt, and even then I don't truly get the benefit of the doubt because of our society's ingrained belief that Blacks are intellectually inferior and always plotting criminal acts.
Mind you, I come from a military family, I worked hard to put myself through college three times (earning a bachelors and two masters degrees) without familial assistance, I am an award-winning graphic novel writer and I was a writer on Marvel's Agent Carter TV series.
But when I walk down the street, none of that matters because the majority of people I meet will reach incorrect conclusions about my intelligence, work ethic, political beliefs and cultural background solely because of the color of my skin.
However, I've known White men who have achieved little in life but are ALWAYS given the benefit of the doubt in all interactions. I've watched White guys shove officers and live to tell the tale, I've seen White men in dirty clothes walk into nice hotels but I'm stopped at the door and have to prove I have a room there.
I can give you hundreds, perhaps thousands, of these kinds of situations. The bottom line here is that there's a stigma attached to Black people that is deeply embedded in our society that has nothing to do with Black behavior. Even when Black women and men wore their Sunday best 7 days a week, we were hung from trees, unfairly arrested and prosecuted and lived under an umbrella of terror.
Blacks can't protest, Blacks can't buy homes in certain areas, Blacks can't drive in certain areas and it goes on and on. To be a White person and tell a Black American what their experiences are/aren't or how they should react to injustice is the ULTIMATE example of White privilege. It would be like me telling a woman how to live her life or to shut up when discussing her dealings with sexism. How can I - a man- know what sexism feels like? I simply cannot "get" it so I decide to listen carefully so I can learn and contribute to a solution instead of planting a flag in the backyard of misunderstanding and challenge her to prove her suffering.
Sometimes, if you're not a part of an oppressed group, it's a good idea to be quiet and back away from the arrogant narcissism that is the bedrock of White supremacy.
MSK
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You lump people into crowds (incorrectly) all the time!!!
So you're saying there's NOT a group of people who don't ever, ever, ever want the Orioles to spend money on superstar FAs?
Okay.
MSK
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I'm curious to see what MSK and the rest of the SPEND SPEND SPEND crowd would be saying if we weren't in the AL East with the Yankees and Sox.
I'm convinced that because we're juxtaposed with these two franchises and have watched them spend ungodly amounts of money for over 10 years makes people around here want to just dish out contracts left and right "because they do it!!!"
If we were competing with the Indians and Royals every year, I'm willing to bet this board would have a drastically different tone/attitude towards spending and FA.
Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa.
How did I get lumped in with a crowd?
I don't advocate - nor did I ever - reckless, endless spending.
But not spending when we CAN while other teams improve around us is a very bad thing.
Again, this is not a controversial idea.
MSK
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You said we need a Hamilton (of which there is only one hitter in FA this year who could be considered in his class as a hitter). Then you said you wouldn't sign him.
Which is it man?
Please pay attention:
MSK
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You said we need a Hamilton (of which there is only one hitter in FA this year who could be considered in his class as a hitter). Then you said you wouldn't sign him.
Which is it man?
When/where did I say I didn't want him? Show me please.
I can't edit my posts so whatever I wrote stays. Show me please.
Thanks.
MSK
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Uh, what?
I was answering his post.
I said "No, I do want Hamilton." Minus the comma. He was attempting to see if I was going to backtrack out of saying I like Hamilton on this team because he called him a "question mark." I was saying I don't have an issue with Hamilton.
MSK
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Yeah I got it and Fielder was the biggest question mark last off season because he's fat. I love all the excuses... Perhaps you should change you name back Mr. Angelos
Hamilton can be counted on to hit .290 plus / 30+ dongs/ 100+ Rbis & OPS .900 +. and pretty much for the next several seasons.
HAHAHAHHHAHAHAHAH!
Yea, every single off-season it's like this.
A superstar FA is available. Then there are like a million bizarre excuses why we can't/shouldn't sign him.
Then we don't and that guy does wonders for the team who did step up.
MSK
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So when he signs for 4/$100, 5/$120, or even 6/$140 with someone else are you still going to blast PA for not stepping up?
Two points:
1) I won't be "blasting" anyone because it will be business as usual for PA and the gang.
2) I think my tone here has been horribly misunderstood. I am not angry, bitter or reactionary. I am only stating that the Orioles aren't a dirt-poor team that needs to behave like catfish on the bottom of a fish tank. We have money and resources. We still have an attitude (some folks on the OH that is) that we can't ever spend money on anything ever unless it is to shore up current players. We have needs. Serious needs despite our success in 2012. Standing pat will not get us to the same place. We need some superstar level talent right now.
Why this is so problematic or controversial a view I will never understand.
MSK
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Uh, yeah...
and don't even tell me you meant "a guy like Hamilton but not actually Hamilton".
No I do want Hamilton.
I never said at $25 Million per year. I would love to get him for 5/100.
MSK
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And yet you want us to sign the biggest question mark in baseball at $25m per year.
Is that what I said?
MSK
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I don't necessarily disagree with all your points, but I'm interested in knowing who over performed last year? I'm assuming you mean by over performed is a player who had a career year or a player that will most likely not duplicate last season's performance.
For one thing the bullpen was an incredible thing but I don't see us breaking a 1-run winning deferential record again.
Adam Jones is good, but without some protection in the lineup, I don't see him having the same offensive stats. Weiters should not hit 5th or 6th. Again, not without some protection in the lineup.
Markakis should be as good or slightly better.
Reynolds should be gone.
BRob, Hardy and Reimold are - right now - touch and go. We have no idea what kind of offensive power we can expect from those guys if they make it out of ST with no injuries or mental issues.
We are a team full of question marks outside of the core. I want the Orioles to make the playoffs again and make the WS! I don't see that happening if we stand pat or make those weird moves the Orioles like to make where we might get lucky (McClouth) or we might not (Thome).
MSK
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You do realize that the team went to the playoffs last year? I don't understand the people who recognize that the team made some more money last year because they were a good team that was in the race and made the playoffs, but seem to ignore the part where we were in the race and made the playoffs.
The O's are not, and have never been, a "pauper team." Nor does their payroll suggest that they are.
Frobby, that's my point.
WE made it last year because of over-performance, excellent managing, the Red Sox collapsing and the Blue Jays not presenting too much of a major threat. We had some stellar - but unlikely - performances from our bullpen and got extremely lucky with the SPs.
If anyone believes we will reproduce the 2012 season without significant upgrades is being incredibly unrealistic. It feels like people believe that because we contended last year with the ridiculous small-town-invisible-market mentality that infests these conversations is setting themselves up for disappointment. I was VERY happy we made it, I watched like 90% of the games on TV or the internet, I went to a few of the playoff games in OPACY and NYC and I truly love this team.
I just want them to be ACTIVE and stop behaving like we're broke. Is that too much to ask? Does that make me a "troll?"
Again, we got VERY lucky last year. That won't happen twice. We need a Hamilton and at least two TOR starters. Proven guys.
We've got the money to do it. We can do it. Some fans on OH absolutely refuse to for some reason.
MSK
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Nobody is saying the Orioles can't spend money. People are saying they need to spend money wisely.
Every single off-season since I've been a member of this community, we have a gang of naysayers who speak out against spending money on FAs.
Every single off-season.
No matter who is available, no matter how badly we need that person, no matter how easily we could afford that FA, there's a gang saying not to spend money on FAs.
Somehow, other teams not named Red Sox or Yankees can open the wallet on a major star (or stars) once every few years.
Detroit did it. Toronto did it. Miami did it last year (stupidly, but they still tried). Anaheim did it.
No matter what the situation is, people here will still say, "it's not a good idea" or "we don't want to mortgage our future on an aging superstar" or "we don't have any money" or "our guys will improve next year, we should wait and see" and on and on and on and on.
It's just amazing to see this stuff after one of the best years in recent Orioles history.
MSK
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What I don't get is this.
Money is money, regardless of whether you spend it on your own homegrown players or FA's. You spend it either way.
I just want to know why the O's never spend the money they'll give to a Markakis, Jones, or Roberts on a FA.
Granted, the money they gave to those players wont land a Hamilton or someone of a superstar caliber, but they seem more likely to lock up their own players vs. spending that same amount of money on FA's.
They need to realize they can do both.
There's a serious disconnect about this subject. After all these years, some folks STILL believe we're a pauper team, with a pauper owner with pauper fans who won't support the team when they contend.
2012 proved that we have the talent, but there are obvious, glaring holes that need to be filled and once again, there's the group saying we can't spend money.
Again.
After the 2012 season.
Sigh.
MSK
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Apparently we are supposed to sign our own guys, sign Josh Hamilton, make more revenue by doing these moves, and then go even more hog wild in free agency in a year or two.
The first three options are entirely possible.
Who here has suggested the fourth?
MSK
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How long does your blank check for Elias last?
in Orioles Talk
Posted
"Foolish?" Okay. Happy Thanksgiving to you as well man.
I understand what you're saying, but let's just take a look at the state of the team from the MLB club to single-A. I am very happy that the FO will finally join the rest of MLB with the use of developmental metrics, my original points remain the same though:
1) It's too early to unfairly criticize Elias or hold him to an impossible standard right out of the gate.
2) We have over 30 years of mismanagement to overcome.
3) The team is in shambles and we need to be patient and see if Elias will be allowed to truly shape the organization without historically documented levels of interference from ownership.
This all goes back to the classic argument on the OH: justified fan cynicism vs bottomless benefit of the doubt for ownership.
Elias didn't create this situation, he's tasked with fixing it and then excelling. That's going to require a coordinated effort and unquestioned support from the guys with the money. Here's hoping they give him the support he needs.
Saying and doing are two different things.
MSK