Maverick Hiker

Maris was important to the Cardinals success in 1967. I used to listen to all of their games on the radio or watch them on TV that year and I can still remember Cards announcer Harry Carey saying "Again it was Maris, in the clutch" after a another big hit. The Cards fought off the Cubs that year for the NL pennant, it was a race until the Cardinals pulled away late. Even in 1968 the year of the pitcher Maris hit .255 which isn't that bad for the year of the pitcher but he only played in 100 games so I'm guessing he was platooned. He retired after that year at age 33, which seems early by today's standards. I read he was a heavy smoker and I wonder if that unfortunately contributed to the early deterioration of his baseball skills (especially his loss of HR power), and his health problems. He never hit more than 13 HR's after he turned 30, after hitting 39-61-33 HR in 1960 1961 1962. Mantle also deteriorated at a relatively young age but not as badly as Maris did.

Still 7 years is pretty long for two players to be on a MLB team together like Mantle and Maris. I'm old enough to recall Maris playing for the Cardinals, he helped them win the 1967 NL with his clutch hitting. They almost won again in '68 with Maris' help, losing a heartbreaking 7 game WS to Detroit. Then Maris retired, and yes he left us way too soon. Mancini and Means, the new M+M boys, I like it.

Every day I'm reading about all time HR records falling. Most HR's by a team, most HR's given up by a team, most HR's by a rookie, most total HR's in MLB. The last time there was an unexplained surge in HR like this it was when McGwire and Sosa were lighting it up, and it later turned out many of those players were on steroids which led to the HR records. I know there have been article written about juiced baseballs, but I don't think that is the problem. Strikeouts are up too which could indicate pitchers are on PED also. My suspicion is that the current PEDs available to players are so sophisticated and hard to detect, that a large percentage of current players are on the juice. If I had to guess I'd say at least 70 percent, maybe 90 percent. The type of PED available now allows players to increase strength, bat speed, arm strength, yet does not cause obvious unnatural muscle growth as was the case with Bonds and McGwire.

That's right. Full Pack Stanhouse, Stanhouse drove Weaver to distraction by his strategy of his walking batters he didn't want to face. Guess it all caught up with Stanhouse when he went to LA. All teams have bad contracts. Sometimes you have to cut your losses. I'm hoping that if Davis does not improve over the remainder of the season, him and the club can come to some sort of agreement (short of them cutting him and still paying him every cent for the rest of his contract while he sits at home). A buyout of some kind.

I'm getting old, so 1970's analogies are sometimes easier for me to come up with.?

The point is: Powell and Killebrew were released after failing to produce, and Powell at age 35 which isn't that much older than Davis. I cannot think of another first baseman who was retained after hitting less than .200 for two consecutive years. Actually I can't think of any position player at all. Teams have given up on players with big contacts. Don Stanhouse left the Orioles for the Dodgers as a free agent. the Dodgers gave up on him and sent him home, and payed his salary the last year and a half of his contract. (While Stanhouse's contract was a fraction of Davis', at the time Stanhouse was considered to be making a lot of money)

I can't and based upon history it isn't likely to happen. Boog Powell was released after hitting .215 and .244 his last two seasons. Harmon Killebrew was released after hitting .199. Unless Davis surges and finishes above .200 the Orioles will release him during the offseason. There is no way they would keep a first baseman who finishes below the Mendoza line for two years in a row.

The Orioles signed Belle for 5 years for what would be S100 million today. He had to stop playing after 2 years, and retire due to injury, but the Orioles had to keep him on the Major League roster for 5 years in order to be reimbursed by insurance for a part of the millions they were paying him. The acquisition of Belle is generally considered one of the worst moves for the Orioles. Yes he played well but for a very limited time for the Orioles, then the contract and him on the roster weighed the team down.

Poor job by Bundy tonight and also by Hyde. I would not leave a starting pitcher in to give up 8 runs in 1+ innings.

I don't know about that, Orioles fans still talk about Glen Davis and what a bust he was for the Orioles. Also Albert Belle.

I like having an established star on the team, a name everyone recognizes. But a first baseman just can't be hitting less than .200. and stay on the team. I hope that Chris will quit , retire , if he doesn't improve. He could walk away with dignity and class, if he accepts a buyout.

Yes I recall when the National League was winning all those All Star games in the 70's it was so frustrating for the AL, something always happened to make them lose. First all star game I can recall 1968 the NL scored a run in the 1st inning on a DP and that was the final score 1-0.

I recall when Ball Four came out, yes that book blew the lid off the old system which treated MLB players like they were a higher level ,with only admirable qualities. It was shocking for people to read that Mickey Mantle drank too much and mused that he would die young like other in his family, or that a famous Yankee like Whitey Ford scuffed baseballs. It was a very interesting book, dragged a bit in parts but still a groundbreaker. I recall it ended with him saying that he'd never give the game up , that he spent his life gripping a baseball but it ended baseball was gripping him and would never let go. RIP Jim Bouton.

T Probably a good idea, at least compared with the present system. Teams are playing too many games with keeping players in the minor leagues, to hold them longer before they can become free agents. However suppose a player just made the team at age 27 due to injuries, or perhaps one of those tryout camps that teams infrequently have. Then they would just have him 1 year and he departs at age 28? The free agent at 28 rule would need to be tweaked.

I'd be against lowering the eligibility time for free agency from 6 to 4 years. When a team drafts and develops a player they should have him for at least 6 years. Also 4 years would increase the incentive for teams to keep players buried in the minor leagues longer. I don't think Adam Jones was valuable enough for a big contract. Even in his prime he wasn't going to carry a team. He was a solid outfielder and above average hitter, but in his 30's who knows what to expect. Also I think his last couple of years in. Baltimore showed some decline.

Perhaps not but at age 39 some deterioration has usually set in for MLB players, if you look at the whole history of the sport. Also how do you explain Davey Johnson going from 10 HR per year to over 40 when he went to the Braves and played with Aaron in 1973?

Yeah I think a cap would be best for the game in the long term. If the player go on strike I hope the owners win for once, and that they achieve a salary cap in the next contract.I'm tired of the big market teams in MLB having such an advantage.

Yeah that's a contradiction. . The platers say the owners are keeping certain players in the minors and thus keep him from being a free agent and leaving the team, for another year. But if the teams are doing on a wide scale, that then why are the MLB players getting younger?

I have never thought players in the early 70's could've been on steroids. And I can recall well those times and those players, I followed MLB closely as a teenager. However some of the comments on this forum have made me start to question my long held beliefs that steroid usage didn't start until the late 90's. Hank Aaron hit 40 HR and .301 in 1973 for the Braves, at age 39. That same year Davey Johnson was traded from the Orioles to the Braves. Davey had never hit more than 14 HR for the Orioles, and he averaged about 10 HR per year. So he goes to Atlanta in 1973 and hits 43 HR. Darrell Evans also hit 41 HR for the Braves in 1973. Could it've been the smaller park helped Davey Johnson and the others? Or was there something else going on in Atlanta in 1973? I guess we'll never know now.

The players are not happy. It seems teams no longer want to pay big money for free agents in their 30's. Also teams keeping young players in the minors longer to prevent them from leaving as free agents. https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.usatoday.com/amp/1690983001

Yeah. Nobody is going to convince me that HGH does not increase players strength, bat speed, power, average, and velocity for pitchers. As for the players build it's not as obvious as the Bonds McGwire years but some of these players today still seem like they have unnatural muscle growth.

Hmm interesting. Still, I tend to believe that steroids and HGH would help a player more than amphetamines. One can find a study to back up almost anything that has a grain of truth to it. Plus, my mind is made up on this issue, and reading studies that go against what I believe will only cause me to have cognitive dissonance.

Funny, how you are impressed with phrases, even when there are no statistics shown to back them up.

No, You have it backwards. HGH and steroids enable players to make a mockery of the game. I saw Bonds hitting many times when he was on the juice, it was ridiculous. His plate coverage and bat speed were unnatural, so was his build. He broke the HR records because of steroids. Bonds could have taken the best amphetamines in the world and he would never have come close to what he did with steroids. McGwire would not have broken Maris' 61 HR record if not for steroids. Amphetamines help a tired player achieve close to his natural ability when he is tired, like after a night game. They do not make him look like the Hulk or enable him to break HR records.

Mantle, Mays, and Aaron did not use PEDs.] I do not consider amphetamines PED, they did not drastically improve a players abilities, the way that HGH and steroids can.