tabletop
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43 minutes ago, Roll Tide said:
I think you’re counting your chickens on the prospects. We make that mistake as fans.
If those guys break loose as you hope then we have depth to deal. If they are serious about competing that will be done with trades and free agency.
Maybe you get starter results from Gray Rod right away. We got it from Henderson and Adley after a short time. Expecting that from Westburg and Norby is naive. It just is! Hearing Elias I’m expecting the boom adding hitters and a mid tier starter like Wacha. I only say him cause it makes @Sports Guy cringe.
It's hard to imagine the prospects don't help the offense more than what they have now even if they do underperform a little bit. Last year the top three in OBP were rookies and I don't think that's a coincidence. Hopefully the days of having a lineup full of guys with OBP's in the low 300's are over.
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There have been a lot of times where a big free agent signs with a team that wasn't good the previous season(s). Manny Machado, Bryce Harper, Kris Bryant, Carlos Correa, Marcus Semien, Corey Seager, etc.. I can go on and on and on. The most important things are how much money you offer and if the player thinks they'll be winning throughout their contract. With all of the young talent in the organization and coming off a winning season it would be an easy sell for any big ticket player to come to Baltimore much like Manny going to San Diego. You just have to offer them enough money.
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2 hours ago, now said:
MLB.com's Anthony Castrovince apparently wants to resume this thread, proposing a straight-up deal of Mullins for Lopez. Sounds good to me. Is it realistic?
It seems like the O's would be getting the short end of the stick in that deal. Mullins is a 3+ WAR CF. Marlins should be adding to Lopez IMO.
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78 wins is pretty fair considering the current roster. I can see an argument for anywhere between 75 and 85. Hopefully they get serious after today and add some real talent to upgrade.
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Makes sense. They have the payroll space to take the next step and bring in some real talent to compete for a World Series. Hopefully it’s true.
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8 hours ago, Aristotelian said:
How high are you willing to go? We have to outbid every other team and they still have to say yes. I have a hard time seeing either happening.
As high as it takes. With their current payroll they can pay whatever they want.
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2 hours ago, Sports Guy said:
Just because you have the money, doesn’t mean you should spend it poorly. Now, I’m ok with either of those guys depending on the length of the contracts but they have to want to come here too.
I’m not saying to spend it poorly. I’m saying they should spend it on difference making talent. Guys that are expected to put up 5+ WAR in a full season. Guys that if they stay healthy are difference makers. They could sign Verlander and deGrom if they wanted to and their payroll still wouldn’t be anything crazy. Depending on contract length they could both be off the books before any of the prospects start making more than a couple million.
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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:
Sigh
The payroll is going to remain low because a huge portion of the team is making the league minimum and more players are going to be added to that.
Which is why it is the perfect time to add deGrom or Verlander. Even with them the payroll wouldn’t be high.
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1 hour ago, Sports Guy said:
Is it sad or is it just the right way to do things?
It's sad because the window is opening and the payroll is currently one of the lowest in the sport. There's no reason they should be near the bottom anymore.
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It's sad that it's just accepted that they won't sign one of the elite starters with their current payroll. That being said the answer is Bassitt. He's more reliable and gives up less runs. Sometimes it's just that simple.
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I think Longoria would be a great signing if he’s willing to be a backup corner infielder / platoon player. He still hits lefties well and can backup 1B and 3B.
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Alex Reyes and Anthony Gose are two relievers I would be interested in. They both had issues with walks last season and we've seen this regime help out similar talents.
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37 minutes ago, Frobby said:
The operative word here is “proven.” Doesn’t mean they won’t in 2023. It’s funny that Lyles is now viewed as some perennial innings eater. He’d never thrown more than 141.1 innings before 2021.
How is saying "at least you could rely on him to get you some innings" the same as saying he's a "perennial innings eater"? He threw 180ip in 2021 before signing with the O's, was brought in to be a mentor who would hopefully be able to eat innings, and he did that. Nobody else on the roster did that last year. Nobody else on the roster has ever done that in their careers. Either way, I don't really care about Lyles I was just mentioning his innings last year because they'll need to be replaced. I'm not saying that all of them can't throw 150ip next season. I asked how that group is going to cover enough innings to not wear down the bullpen. If the answer is to just hope they all do something they've never done before that's fine. I don't think it makes sense to hope that a bunch of guys who have never done something before all come together and do it next year though. It's certainly possible they could sign three proven starters and they all get injured in spring training and never pitch an inning. It's certainly possible some of the current starters throw 150+ip next season. It just doesn't seem likely is all and that's the main reason I think that they need to sign/trade for at least one, preferably two, and in a perfect world three starters.
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5 hours ago, Frobby said:
Let me be clear here: I’m playing devil’s advocate and nitpicking on the word “glaring.”
Grayson is obviously a big factor. If he’s what we hope he can be, that dramatically strengthens our rotation over 2021. Hall’s a big factor too, though I’m less confident of how he’ll pan out as a starter. Could be a big asset, or could warrant a change of roles to the BP. In an oprimistic but not crazy scenario, those two guys are enough to dramatically change the numbers you cited.
So, I could argue that getting another good pitcher is the safest course, but the need isn’t “glaring.”
Personally, I would like to sign the best pitcher we possibly can sign, whoever we decide that is. And maybe a second guy too.
Rodriguez, Hall, Bradish, Wells, Kremer, and Voth. Unless I am forgetting someone those are the current candidates to start next season in the rotation. The only two who have ever thrown over 130ip in a season in their careers are Kremer and Voth and Voth's was back in 2016. Where is that group going to cover enough innings over a full season to keep the bullpen fresh? I know Lyles wasn't anything special but at least you could rely on him to get you some innings and give the bullpen a breather. The current group they have has never proven they can handle a full season in the majors.
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I'm not sure I get the hype around Wells. He shows flashes sure but this is now two seasons where he's had two great months and did poorly the rest of the season. He seems like more of a solid reliever to me than a starter on a playoff team. The lack of strikeouts as a starter concerns me as well as the fact he's never pitched over 120ip in a season as a professional.
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46 minutes ago, Camden Yards said:
Any interest in Cody Bellinger? Still only 27 with some big years and playoff experience. Had two bad years but huge upside. Low risk high reward candidate who can play center, corner OF, 1B, or DH. What type of contract will he get?
https://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2022/11/dodgers-to-non-tender-cody-bellinger.html
Sure, if they think the know what's wrong with him and can help get back close to 2017/2018 form he would be a great addition. I highly doubt he's coming to Baltimore though. Other teams will have interest in him and be able to offer more money, guaranteed playing time, etc..
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11 minutes ago, Frobby said:
You could look at it this way: Kremer, Bradish, Voth and Wells all had solid seasons. Grayson is coming. Hall is available and has major upside. So is SP a “glaring need?” It’s certainly safer to have at least one more good to excellent starter. But the need isn’t as “glaring” as in past seasons.
Even with those guys doing well they were 21st in starter ERA, 22nd in FIP, and 25th in fWAR last season.
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The top 3 on the team last year in OBP were Rutschman, Henderson, and Vavra. I don't think that's a coincidence.
If they can add someone better than what they think one of the young guys will do then it would make sense. But, to sign someone because they're a "veteran" and there are too many young guys playing is how you end up with people like Odor and Aguilar.
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1 hour ago, LookinUp said:
It stinks he wasn't in charge of trading Machado, Bundy and Gausman. Have to figure the return would have better fit his profile for success than what we ended up with.
He did trade Bundy. He traded him for Bradish, Peek, Mattson, and Brnovich.
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No, let the best players play.
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A+
The major league team is a winning team and the farm system is one of the best in baseball. They're setup for sustained success over a long period of time which is what he has said was the goal since day one.
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3 hours ago, Frobby said:
You realize those are very good, right?
No, I guess that I don't realize that. I just found out about ERA+ a month or so ago. Correct me if I'm wrong but doesn't a 108 ERA+ mean that he was a slightly above average pitcher last season? I get that 126 and 138 are pretty good.
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Just now, RZNJ said:
Ok. What do you consider contending for the WS? Do you have to get into the actual WS? If we sign Taillon and trade for Lopez and lose in the ALCS in 7 games, did we contend for a WS?
A contender for the WS, for me, would be a highly talented team that matches up well with other top teams. Teams like Houston, NYM, Toronto, NYY, San Diego, LAD, Atlanta. The teams that you expect to compete for a title. I think in terms of overall talent Philadelphia is probably in that mold. Or, they just got hot at the right time. Maybe Seattle is in that mix of contenders too, not sure right now off the top of my head. Also not really too sure on the Yankees.
No, you don't have to get to the actual WS. Teams get hot in the playoffs all the time and upset teams that are better than them. By that logic the only two contenders last year were Houston and Philadelphia.
I can't answer that last question because it would depend on other variables. Did they pitch better than they did in 2022? Did one of them turn into an ace over the season? Were the offense and bullpen so good that the starters just needed to figure out a way to get the game to the bullpen?
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23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
His point is, and it’s the correct one, is that aces don’t ensure WS or playoff wins.
You made the comment about winning the WS. Verlander has been an awful pitcher in the WS. Other aces have struggled in the playoffs as well. How did having aces work out for the Mets in the playoffs?
I said "contention to win the World Series". I never said that having an ace would guarantee a World Series or playoff win. Other teams have aces too and I would much rather have someone like Rodon, Verlander, etc. facing off against another teams best than Taillon, Walker, etc.. I strongly believe a true ace would help the O's be in contention to win a World Series much more than adding two guys like Taillon and Walker would.
“Orioles big game shopping & most believe it's exclusively rotation”
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I'm not sure what you mean by "so there is no guarantee". A .329 OBP in the minors is not good and was a cause for concern before they ever made the team. I think most would assume someone with a low OBP in the minors will have a low OBP in the majors and they both do.