TradeAngelos
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Posts posted by TradeAngelos
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Hot off the presses....
He wants half of the Ravens parking lots and an extra 300m on top of the 600m offered. Sources say there is absolutely no chance that is happening. He hasn't even talked to the Ravens about it, because why would he? I've negotiated with crazy people before and it never ends well.
Now what?
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As I was saying......
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Harborplace has nothing, zero, zilch to do with the Orioles or filtering people to the stadium. It also has absolutely nothing to do with what Angelos wants to do. To suggest that the redevelopment of Harborplace would somehow dovetail into what the O's want to do is wild. Angelos wants to bulldoze and evict all the businesses on the other side of Russell Street off the southwest corner of the stadium for his grand plan. You know, an area actually close to the stadium and not 1/2 mile away. Harborplace is an entirely different deal. And yes, he will want the state to use eminent domain to do it.
As far as this new information, all you need to know is that this clown wanted a 2 yr extension. If that doesn't send up alarm bells I don't know what will. I truly believe he wants to move the team, or bilk the city for an amount of money that is crazy to "make up" for the fact he won't be allowed to move (and get double the money from another city) If the city hasn't caved by this point I doubt they will. Angelos is hoping his connection to the new Gov would give him some favor. So now what? If the goal is to move there is no chance he is signing a 30yr lease. Doing so would be admitting defeat from everything he has been trying to do to line the families pockets even more. Does JA sound like the type of guy to compromise, when it will torpedo his ultimate goal? No chance.
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4 hours ago, dystopia said:
Also, can someone give me some background on La Canfora. I’d never heard of him before the O’s hired him. What did he do to draw the ire of everyone?
He thinks the Ravens have terrible ownership that is cheap, and the Orioles have amazing ownership who does everything right. He spends 4 hours a day screaming (literally) this on the radio. He billed himself as the "Highlandtown Kid" (neighborhood in the city) from Baltimore, only to be found out that switched to a Red Sox fan when the O's sucked in the early/mid 2000's. (then tried to crawl back to O's thinking no one would find his past) I could go into much, much more, but I think those few things explain it enough. He is hated almost universally in this city.
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Just now, baltfan said:
Check 1997. But true not multiple years.
https://www.thebaseballcube.com/content/payroll/Oh great another one. Thought your herd had been pretty thinned out by now, but guess not.
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6 minutes ago, Fan4Life said:
If nothing else, I would like to see it written into every contract where public funding is used that the Team name and history stays with the City if they ever decide to leave,. Like the Cleveland Browns.... I don't want to see happen to the O's what happened to the Colts.
They aren't going anywhere despite me fully believing that if MLB wouldn't put roadblocks up it would have happened like yesterday. Luckily there are adults at higher levels who are not insane like these people are.
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11 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Correct me if I’m wrong, but if Angelos wants more than $600 mm for this project, the state legislature will have to authorize it, right? This is not something the Governor can do unilaterally. The $600 mm was authorized by the legislature previously.
I have no problem with investing taxpayer money in projects that will provide economic benefits to the city of Baltimore and state of Maryland. But it really feels like Angelos is trying to turn this into a giant boondoggle.
The Angelos family trying to pillage the fanbase and taxpayers even more? You don't say!
It's always about the money with these lowlifes. ALWAYS.
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33 minutes ago, emmett16 said:
My main takeaway from this whole situation is that the organization is not in a stable place. The on field product has distracted for over a year now and has been a joy to watch. But there is no way a stable org can have something like this go down + have dozens of national talking heads jump all over it and come out unscathed. The entire thing makes me feel sick to my stomach and has me questioning why I spend so much time supporting this POS franchise.
Amen. That is exactly why I say great get all excited, but you are just going to be let down in the end. We have seen this movie before. It never ends well.
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Everyone keeps saying fans got kicked out. I am just looking for some solid evidence, but have not seen any thus far.
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2 minutes ago, Orioles0615 said:
Its like one of the responded tweets said. Elias was so honest at the beginning that they would be bad and promised things would get better. Angelos never believed that plan. Probably also why he said the money would be there when they get to the point of spending.
Angelos never believed any of this. He probably either a.) literally thinks he is the chick in Major League and they get so bad he can easily move them to Nashville. (don't tell me the thought of moving them never crossed his mind) or b.) the plan would fail and it would be an excuse to continue to be cheap
Huh. B. is a very interesting theory that I could totally believe, but never really thought of.
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Amazing what they write when they aren't on the payroll and have no threat of retribution. Too much to quote out of this one, but one of the last few paragraphs summed it up perfectly.
https://sportsnaut.com/kevin-brown-suspension-shows-john-angelos-out-of-touch/
Instead, he’s ruining what could be a great thing by not completing tasks, by asserting authority where he doesn’t belong, by not spending money on payroll and extensions and by continually coming across as a spoiled rich kid who must get his way without reproach.
Ultimately, this Kevin Brown “negative stats” disaster is just another swing and a miss for Angelos, who apparently is furious that all this became public.
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There certainly won't be any repercussions from the fanbase, the only people with power to actually affect change.
So no, nothing will happen. They are actively trying to find the leaker, because that is what is most important. Who betrayed the regime, not the ridiculous action itself.
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1 minute ago, maybenxtyr said:
I could squint until my eyes popped out onto the floor and I still couldn't understand what the problem is here.
Psychotic ownership. Been a problem for past 30 years, and probably the next 30. Buckle up.
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Man this is much ado about nothing. Why do you people care? Angelos could crucify someone on the flag court and half of the fans would just walk by wondering what happened on their way to their seats. Seats they spent their hard earned dollars on, giving it to a team that spits in their faces, and their employees faces on a regular basis. But so what? They keep spitting, and you keep forking over that money. You keep cheering and supporting the worst people who could ever own this team, giving them no reason to change a darn thing. Sell? Why the hell are we gonna sell??" as they laugh all the way to the bank.
This ownership doesn't care about the fans, don't care about the players or employees, all they care about is the bottom line. That's it. That is all they have ever cared about. So when you spend hundreds of dollars supporting these trash people, just know that every dollar you spend makes sure that nothing ever changes. And if you think for ONE SECOND, they are going to spend what is needed to get those team over the hump you are delusional. Hell they are sitting on God knows how much money socked away from the last 6 years,. Hundreds of millions probably. And this is whose hands the franchise is in.......forever!! So keep cheering, keep forking over those dollars, and John Angelos is gonna put together a 30 yr run that rivals the old man. That is what you want isn't it? 30 more years of this? Peter Part 2? Yes, you do. So don't complain about what you are helping stay afloat. Just deal with it.
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2 hours ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:
Dan Connolly got laid off by The Athletic he is probably trying to get hired by MASN/Orioles.
Ahhh very good point I did not realize.
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Connolly has been on a tear today, claiming attendance being down massively is just a figment of our imagination. All the fans from the last time the team was good are back!! All it took was winning according to him. So glad we are back to drawing 2.3m a season just like the last time when they were good! Oh what is that...they are only on pace for 1.8m?? Uhhh..........I'm sure that 500k can be explained away by........something. Anyone have any ideas about what might have changed in the last 10 years or so? Nothing! according to Dan. Nothing at all. I love how he waits til a national televised Yankee weekend series to start waxing poetic about how great attendance is.
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One can only imagine if they gave them 100m, how much the network made overall during that period. I mean that was just how much they shorted them. The other number had to dwarf that one. Just trying to keep the lights on. Oh and have rights fees gone up or down since then? What excuses they got now?
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41 minutes ago, Frobby said:
This has ZERO to do with the issues that were before the arbitrators or the courts. The issue the arbitrators faced was what is the fair market value of the rights to broadcast Orioles and Nats games. MASN argued that it was $35-40 mm a year for each team. The Nats argued it was $120 mm for each team. The arbitrators decided on $60 mm for each team. Nobody ever argued that MASN made no money, and neither the arbitrators nor the courts found that the Orioles or MASN lied about anything. The arbitrators did find, by the way, that the Nats’ proposal was far more than MASN ever could afford to pay.
The long and short of this is MASN is paying more than it wanted to and is therefore much less profitable than it hoped to be, and the Orioles’ share of the profits therefore is less than they’d hoped for. Nobody’s going bankrupt or being forced to move from Baltimore, but the Orioles will have about $20 mm less in net revenue from MASN than they hoped they’d get.
I'm conflating arguments I have heard HERE for the last 15 yrs, not specifically whatever the court said about all that. Want me to pull up some old posts going back over the last 15 yrs? I can easily do that. MASN makes no money! Nothing to do with Orioles! Small market small market blah blah blah. From you, amongst others. It was put out 8 YEARS AGO how much MASN was really making but of course the peanut gallery claims "lies". Just trying to keep the lights on right? Well the court decided that, yet again......was another lie.
The court did say.......is that the "fair market valuation" the Orioles had in mind held no water. Imagine that! Maybe it was just a clerical error. Or maybe it was the Orioles doing the same thing to the Nat s as they do to the fans.. L-I-E. Oh we only made this much! No actually you made THAT much. So keep spinning, keep lawyering, keep semantically arguing, that is what you do. I thought you used to be fairly objectionable but doesn't seem that way anymore.
Well not actually.......actually. Actually the court ruled their arguments were not valid. Who could have ever thought the Angelos Family would try to litigate their way out of paying 10's of millions the Nats were rightfully owed, that they decided to keep instead. NOBODY saw that coming did they? Of course not.
The Angelos family is a corrupt, unethical group of people who don't give a damn about you or anyone else, just padding their bank accounts in whatever way they can, and running over anyone in the way if they have to. Fortunately they couldn't run over the Nats. I wish nothing but the absolute worst for anyone with Angelos as a last name.
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11 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:
I remember long ago when Peter Angelos boasted having a RSN like MASN would help put the Orioles on the heels of the Yankees and Red Sox, or right in their faces.
The 2012-16 money was in escrow so maybe I'm wrong, but that shouldn't have a direct impact on payroll. Perhaps it will in 2030 when they are close to finalizing the 2017-2021 rights contract. Better yet, sell the damn "network" to Ted Leonsis who may be able to put live programming on the network nearly year round.
You do Tony but apparently no one else does. Never seen a fanbase with so few values and principles, consistently lied to and treated like trash....yet keep coming back for more. Have at it. You stand for nothing and never will.
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Orioles - "MASN Makes no money!"
Courts - "You are liars, pay up".
Who could have ever foreseen this outcome? Get ready for another decade of excuses. If you thought all the other BS was just that, just wait til this court case gets brought up in every single interview when pressed about finances. Well with the MASN case.......FOREVER.
And what does MASN have to do with the Orioles ability to stay in Baltimore ? They have nothing to do with each other...right? RIGHT? MASN is an entity unto itself, with nothing to do with the Orioles financially or otherwise! At lest that is what I have been told for 15 yrs now.
Yet they spit in your face, tell you it's raining, and you keep giving them money. Maybe sit the kids down and give them a life lesson about people who treat you like trash, and how they should be treated back.
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Missed it yesterday but the Adley response was all you needed to hear. 5 years early he is already laying the groundwork.
Draft, develop, and let someone else pay them. We are the Oakland A's.
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7 hours ago, Porky said:
Since they last won the World Series in 1983, the O's have went 2,856-3,287. That's a .465 winning percentage, or roughly 75-87 on average.
But, that World Series Championship was 40 years ago now. A 10 year old kid in 1983 is 50 years old now. When looking at filling a stadium, you're going to have to be appealing to the 18-35 market. One, because they're a large market with expendable income. Two, they're having kids and they're an important link to the next generation of fans.
For the sake of argument, let's just assume that kids generally start actively following professional sports where they identify with a team around seven years old. A 30 year old today would have been seven years old in 2000.
Since 2000, the O's are 1,613 - 2,009. That's a .445 winning percentage for a 72-90 record.
You mentioned 2007. A 30 year old in 2007 was born in 1977. Just old enough to experience the glory days of old and the 1983 Championship. Today in 2023, that's not the case.
I think the answer for the reduced attendance is pretty simple. The O's have stunk for a long time.
Camden Yards still drew crowds in 2007 because generations of diehard, permanent fans had been cultivated from its historic success in the 60s, 70s, and early 80s. Now, in 2023, we're seeing the effects that continued losing had on a generation of potential fans who are now 18-35 years old. They might just simply not care that much about baseball because they didn't grow up with it. The O's didn't do anything to warrant their attention during their formative years.
Also, the Nationals cannot be ignored either. Plenty of DC folks are O's fans because that was the only team in the area when they grew up. They kept their O's allegiance even after the Nats moved to town. But now, that's not the case for anyone who came of age after the Nats arrived in 2005.
Hopefully with the top farm system in baseball we'll be looking at a new O's Golden Age, which will in turn attract a new generation of fans. But, I don't think we can expect attendance to rebound to past numbers just because they start winning. The damage has already been done.
Another great post. I was the kid in the early 80's who was born in the late 70's you are talking about. The World Series in 83 with the Colts leaving town at the same time ingrained baseball into he fabric of every kids life back then. I spent more time playing baseball as a kid than I did any other sport. The team was connected to the community, and youth more specifically. 20 yrs later it all started to crumble. And 20 years after that here we are. An entire generation of lost fans that like you said are probably lost forever. And honestly I don't see them recapturing that excitement from the youth in this day and age. Like I said before there is just so many things working against them. It's hard to regain major market share after a decline like we have witnessed in any scenario, much less the uphill battle they are facing now. This team needs sustained success and excitement and the fans actually believing in the ownership to fully buy back in, so those trees are bearing fruit in another 20 yrs. I just don't see any way that happens.
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9 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:
I gotta say as a person from the area who grew up a die hard Orioles fan and have been one for most of my life (I'm in my 40's now).
The Angelos family has really zapped much of my passion. It's like how many times can Charlie Brown have the football pulled by Lucy before he realizes "maybe I shouldn't keep trying to kick it?"
After this past offseason (the inactivity combine with the lies/unkept promises) it really had an adverse effect on my passion for the team. It's almost like I'm telling myself not to get too invested anymore because "you know in the end, the Angelos family will only do something to pull the rug from under you".
I think it's not very realistic to think all the Orioles have to do is have a good young team and be around .500 and fans should just come pouring in. The brand has burned a heck of a lot of bridges in the community. And I'm afraid that many people have moved on or are consuming sports differently. There is much data to suggest that much of Gens Y and Z do not even watch/consume live sports.
Another thing to consider - If you think the public will always maintain a certain relationship with how they interact with certain industries, I think post-pandemic that has not proven to be the case.
Just take a look at movie attendance before and after or look at church attendance (live) pre and post-pandemic. Things have changed for many industries, why should professional sports be any different?
I'm 44 grew up 1/2 mile from Memorial Stadium. Same boat as you, but for me last straw was Machado. I knew then it was over for me until they sold. Sadly it doesn't sound like that will ever happen, so I just won't be a real fan ever again. I won't spend a single penny or support anything they do when all they have done is spit in my face for 25 yrs and said it was raining.
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5 hours ago, Pickles said:
I guess that's kind of my point/concern. This team drew over 2 million in 2007 after nine straight losing seasons. They topped 2 million in 2012 after 14 consecutive losing seasons.
If they can't get to 2 million this year then the team's fanbase has been permanently reduced in a way that even winning won't solve.
This is an unbelievably great point. This should be absolutely frightening to anyone in the warehouse when put in this context. What has gone on the last few yrs pales in comparison to that era. Not even remotely similar actually. And they STILL pulled 2m! I honestly wonder if they could ever pull 2m again. EVER. They have infinitely more things working against them now then they did in 2007 even though this "shouldn't" be a worse situation as far as recent team success goes. Outside of that when you factor in population decline, the general state of the city and downtown in general, economy, home experience improvement......at least off the field it is looking pretty bleak when it comes to attendance.
Angelos wanted two year lease extension
in Orioles Talk
Posted
Plenty of space if you bulldoze a few blocks of existing buildings! But he doesn't have a plan or care either. He just wants a bunch of free land and an extra 300m. JA will figure out the "details" later.