DrungoHazewood

The 1920s Orioles had the highest winning percentage of any decade of Orioles baseball.

Cabrera had five starts of at least an 80: Rk Date Tm Opp Rslt AppDec IP H R ER BB SO HR UER Pit Str GSc IR IS BF AB 2B 3B IBB HBP SH SF GDP SB CS PO BK WP ERA WPA RE24 aLI DFS(DK) DFS(FD) 1 2006-09-28 BAL NYY W 7-1 CG W 9.0 1 1 0 2 5 0 1 106 71 86 30 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.274 4.024 .512 2 2006-08-19 BAL TOR W 15-0 SHO W 9.0 5 0 0 2 10 0 0 121 78 85 33 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.109 4.923 .298 3 2005-05-09 BAL MIN W 3-0 GS-8 W 8.0 3 0 0 2 11 0 0 110 71 85 29 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.436 4.179 1.013 4 2008-05-08 BAL KCR W 4-1 CG W 9.0 3 1 1 1 7 0 0 116 76 83 31 30 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1.00 0.386 3.702 .719 5 2004-06-25 BAL ATL W 5-0 SHO W 9.0 4 0 0 2 6 0 0 102 61 83 31 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.477 4.954 .921 But also five starts under 20: 151 2007-09-29 BAL NYY L 10-11 GS-4 L 3.0 10 7 6 1 1 0 1 71 42 13 20 19 2 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 18.00 -0.394 -4.729 1.022 152 2008-08-24 BAL NYY L 7-8 GS-4 3.2 9 7 7 3 0 1 0 95 49 12 24 19 3 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 17.18 -0.442 -5.182 1.019 153 2004-07-25 BAL MIN L 4-8 GS-6 L 5.0 11 8 8 1 0 2 0 99 61 12 27 25 2 0 0 0 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 1 14.40 -0.405 -5.248 .785 154 2007-09-12 BAL LAA L 6-18 GS-5 L 4.1 9 10 8 4 5 1 2 105 62 10 27 22 1 0 0 0 0 1 1 4 0 0 0 0 16.62 -0.410 -6.189 .559 155 2004-08-21 BAL TOR L 4-10 GS-3 L 2.1 8 8 8 2 2 1 0 57 30 9 18 13 2 0 0 1 0 2 0 1 0 0 0 0 30.86 -0.394 -6.916 .861 Interestingly, Cabrera had 23 starts with five or more walks, but none of them had a game score below 41. In fact his all time high in walks in a start was nine, and he got a game score of 56 because he only allowed one run and struck out 10.

That's awesome. That was a big part of Oriole history and largely forgotten. Huge amounts of history were lost, including much of the NL Orioles trophies and archives, when it burned down.

Here's an overlay of OPACY and Union Park. A little hard to see, but Union Park was much deeper down the RF line, similar in RC/CF, and much deeper in LF/LC except right down the line. And the entire park easily fits into a small part of OPACY's footprint.

Yes! Although exactly how many is unclear, because home/road splits don't go back to the 1890s. The '94 Orioles still hold the all-time record for triples in a season with 150, in 129 games. That seems about as likely to be broken as Cy Young's win total. Since the Orioles moved from St. Louis in '54 no team has hit 80 triples in a season.

This was Tillman's best start, an 87.

The recent guys get the strikeouts, but the old guys got to pitch extra innings. Although they'd have probably been better off if they didn't... Tom Tango has a basic pitch count estimator, and by that Jerry Walker threw close to 200 pitches in his 16-inning start.

Top 25 games in modern Orioles history by game score: Rk Player Date Tm Opp Rslt AppDec IP H R ER BB SO HR UER Pit Str GSc IR IS BF AB 2B 3B IBB HBP SH SF GDP SB CS PO BK WP ERA WPA RE24 aLI DFS(DK) DFS(FD) 1 Jerry Walker 1959-09-11(2) BAL CHW W 1-0 SHO(16) W 16.0 6 0 0 3 4 0 0 111 55 51 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 2 0 0 0 0.00 1.591 7.570 1.570 2 Mike Flanagan 1979-08-15 BAL CHW W 2-1 CG(12) W 12.0 5 1 1 1 12 1 0 99 41 39 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 1 0.75 0.974 5.108 1.535 3 Erik Bedard 2007-07-07 BAL TEX W 3-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 0 15 0 0 109 79 98 27 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.617 5.004 .966 4 Mike Mussina 2000-08-01 BAL MIN W 10-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 2 15 0 0 125 85 98 32 30 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.293 5.113 .384 5 Ray Moore 1957-05-21 BAL DET L 1-2 GS-15 15.0 8 1 1 9 9 0 0 97 59 48 1 0 2 0 2 0 0 0 3 0 0 0 0.60 1.212 5.528 1.900 6 Dylan Bundy 2017-08-29 BAL SEA W 4-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 2 12 0 0 116 85 95 33 30 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.502 4.611 .953 50.85 75.00 7 Mike Mussina 1997-05-30 BAL CLE W 3-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 0 10 0 0 95 28 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.483 4.843 .709 8 Connie Johnson 1957-08-23 BAL KCA W 2-1 CG(12) W 12.0 3 1 1 4 7 0 0 95 43 38 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0.75 1.014 4.664 1.468 9 Mike Mussina 1992-07-17 BAL TEX W 8-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 1 10 0 0 117 80 94 29 28 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.313 4.208 .653 10 Milt Pappas 1964-09-02 BAL MIN W 2-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 1 10 0 0 94 29 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.697 4.107 1.125 11 Jim Palmer 1974-09-27 BAL MIL W 1-0 GS-12 12.0 4 0 0 6 5 0 0 93 44 36 0 0 2 0 2 0 1 2 0 0 0 1 0.00 1.023 5.315 1.792 12 Tom Phoebus 1968-04-27 BAL BOS W 6-0 SHO W 9.0 0 0 0 3 9 0 0 93 29 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 1 0.00 0.218 3.420 .438 13 Hoyt Wilhelm 1958-09-20 BAL NYY W 1-0 SHO W 9.0 0 0 0 2 8 0 0 93 28 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.00 0.680 3.956 1.110 14 Jim Palmer 1977-07-23 BAL TEX L 0-1 GS-11 11.0 7 0 0 0 9 0 0 92 39 38 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.935 5.242 1.733 15 Wayne Garland 1976-06-21 BAL BOS W 2-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 1 10 0 0 92 30 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.553 3.749 1.109 16 Jim Palmer 1975-08-21 BAL TEX W 4-2 GS-12 12.0 5 2 1 0 6 0 1 92 42 40 0 0 0 0 2 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 0.75 0.716 3.690 1.540 17 Mike Cuellar 1975-07-26 BAL MIL W 4-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 3 10 0 0 92 29 26 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.336 4.308 .678 18 Ross Grimsley 1974-05-22 BAL CLE W 1-0 SHO(12) W 12.0 8 0 0 1 7 0 0 92 43 41 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0.00 1.023 5.315 1.598 19 Dave McNally 1965-10-01(1) BAL CLE W 2-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 1 10 0 0 92 29 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 1 0.00 0.625 3.986 1.025 20 Jason Hammel 2012-06-16 BAL ATL W 5-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 2 8 0 0 103 65 91 30 28 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.357 4.369 .587 21 Mike Mussina 1998-08-04 BAL DET W 4-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 0 8 0 0 93 68 91 29 29 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.456 4.994 .633 22 Ben McDonald 1993-07-20 BAL KCR W 7-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 3 9 0 0 123 76 91 30 27 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.607 4.944 .939 23 Ben McDonald 1992-04-09 BAL CLE W 2-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 1 9 0 0 112 73 91 30 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 0 0 0 0.00 0.550 4.379 .956 24 Jim Hardin 1968-08-19 BAL CAL W 1-0 SHO W 9.0 2 0 0 0 8 0 0 91 29 28 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 0.00 0.666 3.249 1.307 25 Dave McNally 1964-10-01 BAL WSA W 2-0 SHO W 9.0 1 0 0 3 9 0 0 91 30 26 1 0 0 0 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0.00 0.535 4.066 1.038

This is going to be a thread derailment... but is there a minor league salary cap? Could the Yanks offer up a bunch of contracts to MLB free agents where they're knowingly and willingly going to be assigned to AAA but they'll each make $10M a year? The Yanks would then have a ready supply of backup stars, and they'd keep all these players out of competing team's hands. The Yanks typically have a $600M+ annual revenue stream. They could certainly afford a $200M MLB payroll and a $100M AAA payroll.

How would they do that? As Can_of_corn just stated they have (essentially) a single international player from last year. If he fails, which they do all the time, they get nothing. You act like they're dominating everything. If you have a situation where the Yanks can spend $15M and the Orioles can spend $30M on amateur signings (making up numbers, but something like that), how is it that the Yanks will get all the best players?

They do fine, but they do fine at everything.

We'll see once we have a few years of a management team that is interested in being a key player in the international market. But clearly other small-to-mid market teams do quite well with international signings. I understand that it's difficult for some people to conceptualize realities outside of what currently exists, and for them the default position is that it will fail.

There were a lot of reasons for that, and stark and obvious differences from today. There were no limits on bonuses for amateur players, and the Yanks led the league in attendance every year so they could pay more. Today we have caps on amateur expenditures, so the Yanks can't spend any more than the Orioles. In a draft-less world they could carry over the sliding/slot scale, and have the Tigers and Orioles able to spend much more than the Yanks and Dodgers. Additionally, there were no limits in the pre-draft era to number of affiliated teams. So in 1951 the Yanks had 15 minor league affiliates, including two AAA teams. And no cap on how much bonus money they used to outfit those teams. Today no one has more than eight minor league teams, and they're capped at how much they can spend. That same year the Senators had only seven affiliates, and none in AAA. Teams couldn't spend on MLB free agents, but they were free to have hundreds upon hundreds of players in the minors and no cap on how much to pay them. Also, about 30-40% of the teams in pre-1960 major league baseball were run on a shoestring with very limited resources and revenues. There were years where the Browns and Phillies and others were barely fiscally solvent, probably with revenues that didn't clear $1M. The Browns had three years in the '30s where they drew under 100k fans paying a few dollars a ticket, in an era where ticket revenues were probably 70% of total revenues or more. Teams like that would pretty regularly trade or sell their better players to the Yanks or Dodgers or Cards to have enough money to keep existing.

I guess that depends on what you call "top" HS players. For example, the Orioles signed something like five high school players from round 17-on in the 2017 draft. I guarantee you that 17th or 30th rounders weren't getting anything like $500k, end of the 10th round slot is $142k. The O's 5th round pick was HSer Lamar Sparks, who got a $304,800 bonus and signed.

The 1966 Orioles were built completely out of pre-draft era players. Everyone on that team was either traded there, or decided to sign with the Orioles instead of all the other teams like the Yankees and Dodgers. Andy Etchebarren, Boog Powell, Davey Johnson, Brooks, Sam Bowens, Dave McNally, Palmer, Wally Bunker, Steve Barber, Eddie Watt... they all chose to sign with the Orioles instead of anyone else. And this was in an era where the last Baltimore major league post season appearance was in the 1897 Temple Cup. They weren't signing with a dynasty, or a warm-weather vacation spot, it was just another team in a rustbelt city.

I don't understand why, in a world with capped expenditures on amateur signings, you need a draft at all. The Yanks, Dodgers, and Sox can't offer any more money than the Orioles. And the Orioles have a lot more job openings. It's plausible that the Orioles would be better off in a world without a draft.

There will be a mixture of results. Some will play in indy leagues for $1000 a month. Some will go elsewhere, to other sports, to careers outside of sports altogether. But I do wonder what the long-term implications of this are. Teams have to realize they're getting very little value beyond the 5th round. The 2010 draft has seen no one drafted and signed in the 6th round worth more than 3.1 WAR. Mark Canah and Michael Lorenzen are the best players from the 7th. Bud Norris is very close to being the best player taken in the 6th round in '06. Yes, there are players with 20 or 30 win seasons taken beyond the 5th, but 90+% of picks in these rounds end up either never appearing in the majors or just briefly or ineffectively. Most 8th-rounders are like Jedidiah Stephen. MLB could just decide to cap the draft at 5 rounds forever and there would be a fairly minimal impact. Players like Justin Turner or Mike Leake or Dellin Betances would just not get drafted and they'd have to figure out their own way to becoming a prospect, or going to do something else.

Sure, in a way. But I didn't descend into depths of psychological distress when the AI gave Voltaire Powell (kind of the Clayton Kershaw of the CBL) a career-ending injury...

Yes, I've read that. It's probably been 10 years and I thought it was okay, not great.

Two weird things about Union Park: - Looking out from home plate the field faces due south. Most modern parks face north or northeast. OPACY and Memorial face(ed) NE. In the 1890s all games were day games, so the afternoon sun would be in the batters' eyes. - The main grandstand wasn't centered around home plate. You can see this in the photograph, but home plate was only 20-30 feet from the right edge of the stands (looking at the fire insurance map above). This is because of the apartments or rowhouses at the NE corner of the lot which I assume predated the park. If you lived at 309 E 25th (hard to read the numbers, looks kind of like 309), you'd be closer to home plate than the CFer.

If you use a binomial probability calculator, which I think is a pretty decent estimate, it says a 72-win team (on true talent) has about a 1% chance of winning 87 games. The Orioles are probably about a .350 team, or mid-50s in wins. If that's true, and the binomial distribution holds, the Orioles have less than a 0.001% chance of 87 wins. So something like one in 1.5 million. 10,000,000 sims was probably too much to ask of @Tony-OH. But maybe 1,500,000 isn't so bad?

I mentioned somewhere that OOTP21 has a new 3D ballpark creator. One of my dreams has always been to accurately model Union Park, the home of the 1890s Orioles. There have been many issues with that, mainly that there are very, very few photographs of the inside of the park. The common one is linked here, from the big late-September 1898 pennant race deciding game with Boston. Luckily, a site called Deadballbaseball has a Sanborn fire insurance map of the area around the park, complete with stands and fences. From that and the photograph (you can just make out the LF foul pole, which helps anchor all the other measurements) I was able to use some calipers and drafting tools to determine the fence distances. Green Cathedrals listed the LF line as 300', RF as 350'. My little drawing matched that very closely. As far as I know, nobody ever has had complete dimensions of the place, at least not in 100+ years. But now we know: RF: 350' Angle just past RF: 390' Straightaway RC: 371' CF: 398' Bend in deep LC: 415' Z bend in straightaway LF: 387/395' Deepest part of the LF bleachers: 365' LF line: 300' Home to the backstop: 46' I know this is pretty obscure, but as someone who's studied the NL Orioles for many years this is a big thing. Now I just need to get the stadium generator to work in OOTP and I can have some games in a park that was torn down in 1904.

Yes, yes it was. I played/simmed probably 10,000 games of EWB and EWB II from 1989-1999.

I went to DC United's opener on 29 February and underestimated the conditions. Being out for four hours in 35 degrees with a stiff wind is COLD if you're not fully prepared. That's not really baseball.

I'm not sure MLB wants to have most of their schedule directly competing with football. Plus, if the World Series is in December that means you could have a regular season O's - Tigers matchup at Camden Yards on Veteran's Day. At 9pm on November 12th last year in Baltimore it was 35 degrees with winds gusting to 20 mph. You might get 48 people to show up for that.