theocean
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Are they still annoyed at him for going to arbitration over $300,000 after a year where he had 0 RBIs?
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1 hour ago, SteveA said:
Sad to say, but I think SOME folks don't see violence against women as THAT big a deal. They can remember times when they were so made at their wife or girlfriend that they WANTED to hurt them, even if they didn't, so they can empathize with that. And the hear a few stories where a woman makes a false accusation -- which does happen on occasion but is by far the minority of cases -- and assume it actually happens a lot. So they have a tendency to have some level of sympathy or even empathy for a man accused of hitting his wife or girlfriend.
But what Heimlich was accused of doing -- no one has any sympathy or empathy for that.
I think you really hit on some truth here.
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1 hour ago, Tony-OH said:
Nothing is going to satisfy your hunger and lust for his demise so there really is nothing more to discuss. I've given you the quotes from him and the people in his management about him. You can choose to continue to vilify him all you want.
I will choose to look at him a flawwed human like the rest of us who made a mistake and is making the corrective actions to become a better person. I will root for his success on his journey and if that journey takes him to the Orioles, I too shall root for him here.
OK, no one is saying or thinking this. I think pretty much everyone here believes in people having second, third, or fourth chances. Everyone hopes he can turn his life around.
But, Russell's ex-wife has went on record. Plenty of details about him drunkenly ripping their baby out of her arms, slamming her into concrete, and other abuse. If the O's were to sign him, I think I'd personally pass on supporting the team. It wouldn't sit right with me. I don't really look to Brandon Hyde's thoughts on the matter to be my moral compass. But, you're certainly entitled to do what sits right with you too.
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8 minutes ago, atomic said:
I think you are minimizing this. The reason that so many people get upset about domestic abuse is that they lived through it either themselves or saw their mother, their sister, their daughter or their friend go through it.
Even if you think he deserves a second chance. It will upset a lot of fans of the team. It will bring back traumatic experiences in their lives. I don't see why we should have to deal with the Addison Russell experience.
I am not sure where your hypocrisy statement comes from. Sure we have all made mistakes. I am not saying he doesn't deserve a team to pick him up. I just don't want it to be the Orioles.
I know you were pretty upset about NFL players sitting for the anthem. To me that was pretty meaningless as it really had no effect on anyone. Yet you were upset about it and stopped following the Ravens for a while. You don't think Addison playing on the Orioles will have an affect on how the team is seen in the community.
Major League Baseball is an entertainment product. People don't want to root for someone who is connected to beating up their wife. Like atomic said, domestic violence is a sensitive issue because so many people have been impacted by it - and it leaves scars physically and emotionally.
For too long, domestic violence was swept under the rug and not given the seriousness it deserves. For years, men who beat up women have been protected by the typical takes we always hear: "we don't know all the facts" or "women exaggerate" or "what did she do to start it." It's absolutely ridiculous. People are finally taking a stand against it - and if the O's sign Russell, they're going to have the same problem the Ravens had with Ray Rice.
I hope Russell learns from his mistakes and moves on from here. But, he can do it outside a baseball diamond. No one is taking away his right to make a living. He's 25 years old and can find work somewhere else like the rest of the people in the world. He already got a second chance from the Cubs anyway.
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7 hours ago, Frobby said:
Probably. In the court filing, MASN described this as an industry trend rather than something specific to MASN’s market. It’s interesting that it’s in-market loss is much smaller than their out-of-market loss. I don’t totally understand what “out-of-market” means in this context and how those customers access MASN. Is this primarily people who live outside the Pennsylvania - North Carolina corridor and either get MASN via satellite subscription or some kind of premium channel on their cable?
I'd assume out-of-market describes people who get MASN via a satellite or cable provider outside a subscription package. They're paying for it a-la-carte because they personally want to watch it. They're likely a diehard fan who moved out of town.
It makes sense to me that the in-market numbers have went down more, because MASN is a part of the higher-tier packages that Comcast or Verizon offer. There's probably a lot of people who had MASN previously who didn't even watch it, it was just part of the package they purchased from their cable provider.
As cord-cutting has increased, that's fewer people who are paying for MASN locally - whether they were watching it or not. ESPN has the same problem. You might have heard of the term "ESPN Tax" before. ESPN is by far the most expensive channel for cable providers - a few years ago I remember it cost them about $4.50 per customer - and that cost is passed along to each of its customers, whether they are watching ESPN or not.
Ultimately, I see why MASN wants to avoid a MLB.tv type option - there's no long-term commitment. People rarely change their cable service, but its pretty easy to choose not to renew a MLB.tv subscription if your team is going to suck that year.
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2 minutes ago, SteveA said:
So you bring up the Marlins. I guess you think the entire concept of this is to dump talent and get younger, and that what we and the Marlins are doing the same thing.
Did the Marlins revamp their entire system to go to a data driven approach? Did they invest in new equipment to monitor hitters and pitchers' body motion at all levels of the system? Did they take steps to standardize instruction throughout the system? Did they hire additional personnel to scout Latin America? Did the Marlins create a whole analytics department out of practically nothing?
I guess if you think there's nothing to this rebuild except getting bad for a while, I can see why you are so opposed. If you think what the Orioles are doing and what the Marlins are doing is somehow equivalent, then no wonder you don't like it.
So far, only ONE team has done a rebuild in this fashion -- the Astros -- and it worked spectacularly well. I'm not sure how many others of the so called tanking teams are trying to do a state of the art data driven rebuild like Houston. But we are.
The Marlins have invested heavily in analytics since the change in ownership. Do a quick Google search and you'll find articles describing what they've done.
I think pretty much every team has a sizable analytics department now. The Orioles were just one of the last holdouts unfortunately - do to a number of reasons.
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4 minutes ago, jerios55 said:
The 432mill over 5 years is ~86mill per and they may owe about 15mill per year back, leveling to about 71mill. I know they have other sources, but I don't see how you get to 150million.
YES was paying the Yankees about $85M before they sold to Fox, so that's actually not too shabby for a much smaller market.
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Great work, Frobby. Really appreciate the time you've spent explaining a very complicated issue in a very understandable way.
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1 hour ago, weams said:
Can't happen in Baltimore. Have you ever been to Houston?
Yes, I have. I'm not really sure what you mean here, weams. Are you comparing Houston's size to Baltimore's?
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2 hours ago, Can_of_corn said:
I think it's more than that. I mentioned it earlier, a lot of us remember how well half measures worked last time.
That being said patience won't be limitless. If there is nothing encouraging at the ML level this year folks will start getting restless and I would guess folks would expect a team that is at least losing competitive games in 2021.
I really resist the notion that the only alternative is what the O's did from 1998-2011. Those were just really poorly operated teams with a lot of people in roles they shouldn't have been in to begin with.
There's plenty of different rebuild strategies besides Astroball-tear-it-down-to-the-studs.
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37 minutes ago, weams said:
Not a possibility to ask for that. Playoffs don't work well for small market teams. It's a lot of luck too.
I get what you're saying, but I think the entire reason people are on board with Elias' plan is that they expect Astros-level success: World Championship and deep playoff appearances.
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7 minutes ago, Philip said:
What do you know about Maikal Franco? I think he’s the only meaningful third baseman who got dumped, he wasn’t hitting very well and I don’t know anything about his defense. I don’t think he’s better than our own Ruiz, but he might be.
He's always struggled at getting on base. Not great with the glove. I'm not a big Franco fan.
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5 minutes ago, Philip said:
OK, focusing on the topic… It seems to me that the baseline is threefold. What a non-tendered player offers, what we can get in the rule five draft, and our own available players.
There is a potential cost difference, of course, our own guys, and the rule five guys will all be league minimum, and a non-tendered player will be perhaps a little bit more, but not significantly more.
There’s at least one 2+ WAR 2B let go by Philly, some catching possibilities, and maybe a reliever or two.
I don’t think we want an outfielder, we have plenty of those already, and I don’t think the available third basemen offer anything of interest either. So how do you guys feel about the available catchers or relievers?
I'd hope they'd take a look at Jimmy Nelson, Taijuan Walker, and Aaron Sanchez. They'll probably end up outside their price range, though.
Jose Peraza is intriguing. He was pretty bad last year, but he's only a year removed from solid year.
There were actually a lot of solid players let go yesterday, but I have the feeling that most of them will get offers outside of what the Orioles are willing to do.
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35 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
That's a fine comparison between the Orioles and the Marlins. However one is being run by an Ivy League grad, the other is being run by a former Yankees shortstop who's got a penchant for banging supermodels and making bad baseball moves.
Now I know who I'd rather hang out with in South Beach but I also know who'd I'd rather have lead building my baseball team. Just because the Marlins are willing to take on that type of a contract doesn't mean it's a smart move.
I think we all need to stop acting like going to an Ivy League school makes someone have super powers.
First and foremost, it just means that your family has enough money for you to go to a really expensive school.
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1 hour ago, backwardsk said:
The low bar would be a five year run in the 20s that is equivalent to Duquette’s 2012-2016. If they don’t achieve that, this experiment will be a failure.
I agree. The results of the tanking have to exceed the results of a typical rebuild. If Elias puts the Orioles through five 100+ loss seasons or whatever - they better win a Championship and have more than the three postseason appearances of DD/Buck's 2012-2016.
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No matter what happens with Villar, no matter what we disagree about - I just want everyone to know that you all are worth 4 WAR in my heart.
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I would totally buy a season ticket plan if MASN streaming was included.
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5 minutes ago, interloper said:
Weird move for SD. This is the guy you want to round out your infield for a postseason push? It's like Villar is invisible right now.
I usually have absolutely no understanding of what AJ Preller is trying to do in general.
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43 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:
But I think you are missing out on the part about how this looks to fans and others in the industry. What team just releases or non-tenders it's best player who is 28-years old an coming off a 4-win season?
While I agree that this probably does not affect the timeline for the Orioles to be a contending team in the future, it does show that this organization will be cold and heartless when it comes to their bottom line. How will you be able to trust an organization that will do this?
What makes you think Mancini won't be next? Let's fast forward and say the team is not competitive and suddenly Rutchsman is expensive and close to fee agency? Just release him, right?If Villar is just non-tendered or released or basically given away, I believe the team has just set an ugly precedence. Seriously, who would go pay money to watch the team next year after what they did? They basically just told their fans that they will release any player on the roster if they get too expensive, regardless of their production and enjoyment the fans get out of watching them.
I completely understand what the team is in the middle of, but just outright releasing good players over money that won't make a difference to anything but ownership's bottom line is not a a way to keep or develop fans.
I agree. If the organization is cold and heartless to its players - fans will end up feeling cold and heartless toward the organization.
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4 minutes ago, Aglets said:
According to Roch's morning blogpost teams have until 1 pm today to claim Villar.. I guess he will be a FA after that?
The general assumption is that the Orioles will non-tender Villar if another team does not acquire him, either via waiver claim or trade.
The O's could also work out a deal with Villar, still. But, I can't see that happening - assuming that the Orioles aren't going to offer Villar a multi-year deal.
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1 hour ago, Win Column said:
This whole thing strikes me as a prime reason why the current MLB compensation structure should be demolished and replaced.
It's one of those things that makes a strike look possible, for sure.
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3 hours ago, Roll Tide said:
I'd love to see the justification for the 1.8 projection. The fact is the guy has doubled that projection twice in the last 4 years and beat it by nearly 1 win in the 3rd. Villar is in his prime not in his middle 30s and declining.
The bummer about Front Offices switching to a complete analytics approach is that a lot players don't even get a chance to beat their projections.
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1 hour ago, Enjoy Terror said:
Uh it’s profit. Why do they need to spend all the money they’ve saved? They brought their city the best baseball team in the league, maintain a high payroll, and turn a profit for the owners.
I don’t understand the need to be semantic about “well he said he’d spend every dollar he saved, BUT he lied and didn’t spend EVERY dollar and I can prove it!!”
You guys have this weird fixation on baseball being an altruistic charity of sorts when literally no business in this country is run on that principle. They all budget, they all scrimp, they all cut corners. At the end of the day the Astros still delivered the best product, so what do you care? If the Orioles win the World Series with $150M payroll are you going to write a nasty letter saying you’re boycotting the celebration because “you could’ve spent $200M”?
I think you're missing the point, especially with the bolded comment. No one is saying they expect a team to spend all of its money every year.
To start, teams play in taxpayer funded stadiums. Minute Maid Park specially was built with $180M in public funds, which was 68% of the total cost. So, no, it's not like a typical corporation. There's an expectation that a baseball team holds up to their side of the bargain. There's an expectation that the team is supposed to provide an economic stimulus in return for that taxpayer money.
You're starting to see cities resist new stadium deals - or the Olympics for that matter- because they realize its a raw deal for them.
Second, baseball is an entertainment product. People can choose to spend their money on what entertains them. And, people are starting to realize that paying a lot of money to watch a crappy team while a rich guy gets richer isn't entertainment for them.
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16 minutes ago, POR said:
The Astros are paying both Vetlander and Greinke.
Yes, they are. They are also included in those numbers. Like Corn said, the Astros got back a significant amount of money in those deals.
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I personally prefer a Paul Bako or Sal Fasano type backup catcher. One who can really provide some muscle in a dugout-clearing brawl.