Pickles
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Posts posted by Pickles
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40 minutes ago, Frobby said:
I think we should avoid hyperbole here. Sure, it is possible that Odor will have a rebound year that is better than his last several. For that reason, it’s possible that in hindsight we’ll say that this move wasn’t a waste of time. But the odds are against Odor being anything better than he’s been the last five years. There’s a high probability that he won’t significantly improve the team. I’d be happy to be wrong about that.
Has the hyperbole flown in two directions here?
I see it flowing in only one direction.
I have literally seen no one claiming that Odor is going to be good. Or even make the roster.
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23 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
Except those guys aren’t on the team anymore and didn’t end the year with the team…so he doesn’t make the team better that will be on the field in 2022.
BTw, it’s far from definite that he would be an improvement over those guys.
Well, we are basically arguing whether Odor is better than replacement or not. Though to be fair to my point, he doesn't need to be as he is clearly replacing below replacement allotment on the O's.
I don't know if Odor will be better than replacement or not. He can be awful. Way worse than replacement.
But he has higher upside than the guys he replaced. In a vacuum that can only be good.
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Just now, Yardball85 said:
The Orioles rebuild began in 2008 give or take, right? When they traded Bedard and Tejada? Would've been nice if our "2009" was in 2020.
2009 is the year Wieters came up. And it took a couple years.
(And a couple of real slick moves by the Sweater Vest.)
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1 minute ago, Nite said:
I can't see them keeping these guys down in the minors for another season. So that means a early as this year they could be here and then making an impact in 2022. Rather have something around them from the start is all I'm saying.
No, no, no, the boys need to start coming up. AR first. And the rest as best for their development with no artificial salary concerns dictating the pace.
But they're not going to be good right away. It will take a few years. This is 2009 of the rebuild.
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4 minutes ago, Nite said:
Also logic. If you're building a team With the complete faith and belief that your top farm system is ready to go as early as this year and then really ready in 2 years then you need a 5 year plan. Getting a 27 year old star now falls into that 5 year window. Waiting until year 3 just means you possibly lost a golden chance in there and might be forced to make a stupid trade to shore up an exposed hole that could have been filled years prior if you had a real 5 year plan (ERod as example).
It's not the losing. It's the no clear foresight to attempt to stop the losing. This team needs a SS and 3B. This team has no future prospects on the horizon (someone can emerge but I'm not holding my breath). This is an off-season to get a SS who you might not be able to get in 2 years. Get them now. If there is another target then fine, but players like Odor have no place in a big plan unless Correa is the main piece this year. You can get an Odor anytime.
I don't agree with that. That's where we divert logically.
Correa would be the kind of guy I would sign. And if they do that I will be celebrating.
I just don't think they have much of a chance to do that.
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8 minutes ago, Moose Milligan said:
Haha. Good catch.
Well, I stand by it here, I guess. I'd rather sign Odor for league minimum than hand Semien that contract.
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1 minute ago, Nite said:
Pretty sure Segar and Semien are going to be really good players still in 2-3 years. We can argue about the pitcher's signed but when it comes to position players you're good with consistency and those guys have it.
I'm not asking for much. Bring up the kids that are ready, bring in a legit SS and 3B, patch work a prayer signing with some starter and see where we are. Then when we see where we are reassess and go from there next year. This perpetual stuck in neutral is exhausting. What if Adly and Grayson are the real deal? I'd rather have something around them when it matters and not scrambling around when we realize we got something. If they're busts then you just blow it up again. At least you can say you tried.
I can't disagree with what you're saying because your position is one that is rooted in emotion, and frankly, it is an emotion I share with you.
I'm tired of losing too. We all are.
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Just now, Moose Milligan said:
Well you're still poor either way.
Hey. Weren't you the guy who was talking about your high standards the other day?
Well, yeah, we're still bad. Anybody selling Odor as the solution to that is wrong.
Was I? I don't remember talking about high standards. Maybe. Context?
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1 minute ago, Moose Milligan said:
This is like saying you're happy with your D+ on your test because the kid next to you got an F.
It's like saying I'm happy with 10 cents because I only had 5 before.
Which is the only rational position to take.
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2 minutes ago, Nite said:
Watching other rebuilding teams fill their holes with solutions that should last into the future while we're slapping duct tape on ours and giving the thumbs up.
Most of those teams are going to be regretting those contracts in two years. And they'll hinder their ability to compete then.
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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
What do they have to do with anything?
Gutierrez is better and he sucks.
Urias can’t play SS everyday.
Odor is better than guys who got some major abs on last years team. Thus he makes us better.
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Just now, Moose Milligan said:
If by poor man you mean drunk as **** and sleeping in a gutter...yes, he can be a poor man's Alfonso Soriano.
Fair enough. A very poor man's Alfonso Soriano. It's better than Ritchie Martin's poor man's version of Cesar Izturis.
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Just now, Moose Milligan said:
Well, he can't be as bad as Maikel Franco.
Can he?
Oh, he can. Take my word on it.
He can also be a poor man's Alfonso Soriano.
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Just now, Moose Milligan said:
For me, it's not necessarily about spending more money, it's about spending the right money wisely. Though, I'm assuming in this case, spending more money would be nice.
IMO, this move doesn't really move the needle for this franchise moving forward. And I get it, not every deal can help an organization transform and improve, I don't deny that. But this move is just a head scratcher at best. Odds are Odor is not on this team after the 2022 season...hell, he might not be on this team by the All-Star Break.
I just don't get it. I don't see the vision. Even if you wanted to go the one-year, placeholder route, there were better options out there IMO.
This isn't a placeholder imo. He isn't guaranteed to be on the team at the All-Star break, because he isn't guaranteed to be on the team in March.
This is literally a bottom of the barrel signing and he replaced a guy on our 40 that he is better than and has way more upside than.
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Just now, Pickles said:
Franco says hello. Urias says hello.
Edit myself:
Franco and Ruiz.
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1 minute ago, Sports Guy said:
It’s a dumb decision. He doesn’t help us. He doesn’t improve us. He hit 30 homers in 2019 and his WAR was .3. He’s basically Tony Batista. That’s not a helpful player.
On top of that, he’s getting a ML deal and a spot on the 40 man. I know they could pull a Yolmer Sanchez and just cut him. I get that. But that’s not the point. It’s the actual decision making process of signing a terrible player when you already have better players at the positions he plays and, on top of all of that, you aren’t trying to get better. You are, at best, going sideways if he is the new third baseman and worse if you play him over Urias.
There aren’t any positives to this. I don’t care about the money. It’s meaningless on a team with a sub 40M payroll.
Franco says hello. Urias says hello.
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11 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
His BA has been no higher than 205 in 4 of the last 5 years and his OBP has been sub 300 in 5 of the last 6 years.
Yes, he will hit some homers. Yes, he does have some pop. Jon Shepherd, on Twitter, is pointing out that he has a good barrel%.
That’s great..but the guy is an out machine. He just isn’t a good player.
If he had more than one plus tool he wouldn't be a minimum signing.
Now I know you want to spend more money, but as an individual move, there's nothing to complain about here. Unless you're unhappy we exposed Ritchie Martin to waivers.
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Just now, Sports Guy said:
Well, he shouldn’t play second on this team.
In 2019, he had 30 homers and 93 RBIs. He also had a slash line of 205/283/439.
Yea, I’m good with not having him hit 30 Homers if that’s going to be his slash line.Oh, I'm not saying he's going to be great. Or good. Or even be the roster.
I'm biased because I do watch the Rangers regularly, as I've had point to mention recently, but this give this guy 600 abs in Camden Yards at that's 30 HRs.
Now the rest of his game might be garbage- though the rumors of him being "awful" defensively are stretched. But 30 Hrs, at 27 years old, in the infield where we have little talent, is worth a dice roll if it costs nothing.
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In addition to half a billion to these two, the Rangers are now paying Rougned Odor 13 million dollars to play for us.
Almost like there's a connection.
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I'd rather have Odor than Martin. And that's what this was. And looks like we'll have both.
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Just now, Ripken said:
There's literally no upside to this move.
25 HRs from 2b?
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1 minute ago, Frobby said:
Not giving an opportunity to somebody with more of a potential future?
This is true. Opportunity cost. Which is real and not talked about enough here- especially in regards to signing FAs.
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Anybody worked up about this realizes he can be cut in March with no loss. There's literally no downside to this move.
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54 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:
Not sure I understand this at all. So I guess Urias goes back to utility for the 2022 version of Maikol Franco? This seems like a deal you make last offseason.
Call me confused.
Oh, I don't think he's promised any starting spot. Or anything much at all.
Meanwhile, back at the ranch…in Texas
in Orioles Talk
Posted
Bear that in mind as we hear people pining to make these kind of moves.