Pickles
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Posts posted by Pickles
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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
They extended Altuve before the 2014 season. Would be nice to see the O's pick a young player and do something similar.
Is there anybody worthy?
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5 minutes ago, gold21030 said:
Many of these teams listed have good cores but really lack in depth. Washington, for example, has Turner, Soto, Scherzer and no one else really exciting.
Robles is a glove first outfielder, Schwarber and Bell are lousy fielders and streaky hitters. Strasburg is constantly hurt and Corbin has been lousy. Their bullpen is meh and the rest of their pieces are meh too.
Well isn't that kind of the Op's point?
We don't have a core or depth.
Bringing up some top prospects- if they're even successful- might give us a core, but that won't make us a good team.
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3 hours ago, kidrock said:
Yes, absolutely terrible.
It isn't always appreciated.
47 wins.
The best talent from that team all gone. With no major league assets left.
In spite of that firesale, one of the worst farm systems in baseball. And an overpriced roster.
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3 hours ago, crowmst3k! said:
I don't know how to answer this question.
Well, it's meant to be rhetorical really.
I've made similar analogies in the past, but they're imperfect at best.
Figuring out the timeline for this rebuild isn't simply a matter of comparing it to what happened under Andy MacPhail.
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Regarding Means' trade value:
I don't accept that it is at its peak. There's definitely upside here.
I wouldn't even consider a package that didn't start with two top 50 global prospects. Depending on the farm system that's probably 2 out of the top 3.
And then the conversation continues with your international guys.
Or no deal.
It's actually a great position to be in, as there's no real need to negotiate much.
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2 hours ago, Frobby said:
There’s not a lot of point in debating this ad nauseum, as the real issue is the Angelos brothers’ degree of patience with Elias, not their father’s relationship with MacPhail.
That said, I don’t currently recall Angelos ever interfering with a trade Andy wanted to make, and he made a lot of them.
As to Buck meeting with Angelos, Buck said that was Andy’s idea.
Finally, it was always in Angelos’ nature to listen to people other than the GM, regardless of whether the team was winning or losing. He had a 25+ year track record on that score. So to me, it had nothing to do with losing patience with MacPhail, and certainly wasn’t a calculated effort on his part to push MacPhail out the door without overtly saying so.
Brian Roberts, no?
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I think another thing worth pointing out is that rebuilds almost never go in linear fashion. There seems to be a belief that we'll win 70 game and then 80 and then 90 and we'll be right in contention. That's doubtful.
Go look at the Ray in 08 when they finally got good. Or the O's in 12. Or the Cubs and Astros. Those teams got good overnight.
So even if you believe we'll be competitive in 2024, it's very possible that we won't be any good until then, and well under .500 in 23.
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1 minute ago, crowmst3k! said:
All of the eggs are in the player development basket. If the high-level guys in the minors hit their projections, then the Orioles should at least be competitive in 2023. A lot of moves can happen, as well.
The 2009 and 2010 Orioles were pretty bad. The 2011 Orioles were still bad, but had several pieces added who would contribute, and in 2012 everything came together.
I see this current team as similar to the 2009 Orioles, but with a better farm system.
They got pretty lucky in 2012. What if it hadn't come together until 2014?
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I wouldn't necessarily fully embrace your time-line, but I have long felt we're further away than the general consensu seems on the board.
None of our top prospects has even arrived in the MLs.
It will take years for those top prospects to affect winning and losing at the ML level.
You can do the math.
The Baltimore Orioles in 2018 were probably in the worst position in modern history in terms of being prepared to compete.
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2 hours ago, Hazmat said:
He’s 30 years old and making almost $8.7M. I’d rather give Nomar Mazara a shot.
That about sums it up.
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9 hours ago, OrioleDog said:
I forgot about Shane Baz skyrocketing - ideally a Grayson-Baz August duel could be the hottest minors thing since Grayson-SWR. Its like Grayson is working up Punch Out....with the Gerrit Cole head to head sometime next spring.
On its recent Midseason 50, BP went Grayson 12, Baz 13 as top two pitchers, then hedged with this blather:
A few years ago, we had a modest proposal in a rankings email chain from a staffer who now works for a team to do our national rankings as we like, and then just drop every pitcher 10-20 spots before publishing because of the risk and attrition rate. So yes, Rodriguez is the highest-rated arm on this list, but he still carries the “he’s a pitcher” risks. Anyway, if there’s a specific concern here, maybe none of the offspeeds ever becomes a true out pitch and he’s never a true front-of-the-rotation arm.
I'm glad somebody brought this up- if only obliquely.
I'm seeing a lot of hope in here that one would have thought the years of Orioles' fandom would have ripped out of a man's soul.
Pitching prospects are much, much riskier than positional ones. As such, there's really no way to justify ranking Rodriguez over Rutschman.
(That is not to say, of course, that ALL positional prospects should be ranked over ALL pitching prospects.)
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1 minute ago, OsFanSinceThe80s said:
Harvey did pitch for the Royals (and badly) last year so maybe there was some extra motivation today.
Much more likely is the Royals remember him from last year, and spent all of Saturday night out drinking in anticipation of their big day.
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4 hours ago, Frobby said:
2021
4-6
4-6
6-4
3-7
0-10
5-5
1-9
3-7
2-8
Now 1-0 in the next stretch!
First 30: 14-16
2nd 30: 8-22
3rd 30: 6-24
Not a good trend…
We stink. It's wearing on me.
Not to add to your burden, but adding run differentials might be enlightening.
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17 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
I don’t think that was ever the right characterization. I do think it’s fair to say he wasn’t BPA.
As I said before, I think there is a chance the team had Kjerstad as the BPA. I just don’t believe they valued Cowser as BPA over Lawlar. Maybe they did but I don’t buy it. But it’s possible, especially after seeing how things played out, that they had him over Watson and House.
Well you hit it: BPA is in the eye of the beholder, and it's possible he was BPA for them.
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3 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
This draft is also showing you that the pre draft rankings mean next to nothing. Watson goes 16th..House 12th. Everyone had Mayer first and goes 4th.
Again, I think Cowser was the wrong pick but you may be able to argue that he was the second or third best player on the board.
It's really starting to appear that it's hard to call him a "reach" or even an "overdraft."
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Just now, doccat said:
I'm a physician who treats Myocarditis.
I'm afraid if he's still on the shelf this far out, that's really concerning and Can Of Corn might be right....
It still doesn't condemn the pick or the process behind the pick. So it's not a very effective way to criticize Elias or this pick.
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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:
Going underslot is like tanking.
The more teams that do it the lower the return is going to be.
Everyone is going to be looking to give second round money to third round talent in the fourth round.
I was going to respond to SG, but you're making the same point so.....
The more teams do it, it isn't as effective.
It probably doesn't change the calculation much, in terms of rebuilding or going underslot.
Personally, I don't see the value in going underslot in the MLB draft. It's such a crapshoot; it would be one thing if you were trading down for more picks. In fact a very different thing.
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Knee-jerk: I don't like it.
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36 minutes ago, Tony-OH said:
I'm not talking about one year because if we want to talk about domination you don't get much more dominant than Matt Riley at Delmarva in 1998.
Bundy's velocity kept falling every year in the minor leagues. He never threw as hard as he did in high school when he would sit in the high 90s. By the time he was in Bowie he was good, but not amazing. Bedard had better stuff overall.
Fair enough.
I still remember, and I know several others do too, Bedard's performance against Texas on 7/7/07. That was an impressive sight. Bedard looked like what they say Sandy Koufax did. I can easily imagine remembering this arm.
I just went and looked at his minor league stats. He averaged over 11 K/9 in the MiLs for the O's back when that would have meant something.
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On 7/7/2021 at 8:21 PM, Tony-OH said:
Well I can't lie, Weiters looked like the best player in the minors at his time. His dominance then was unparalled. Erik
Bedard had the best stuff from a starter stand point. Grayson Rodriguez probably is the best now.Rutschman is right up there with Wieters from a prospect stand point of having a chance to be impact in both parts of the game.
I mean to ask about this.
Bedard looked better than Bundy did in Delmarva?
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3 hours ago, Frobby said:
I am a big fan of the command/control guys. But it’s interesting how sometimes they get to the majors and don’t exhibit the same command/control they were reputed to have in the minors. I’m not sure if it’s nerves, or just the superior ability of major league hitters to lay off pitches out of the zone.
There's a few skill sets I like to see in young players that allow them imo to often outperform their "raw" talent level. I'm not saying become superstars, but become starting level ML players when that wasn't the label put on them in the minors. One is a young pitcher with COMMAND of multiple pitchers. Another is a young SS who has the ability to play at the ML level NOW. Not just a kid with a ton of range and a huge arm, but one with the polish and fundamentals to not just be a projection.
Rom obviously falls into the former category. I'm starting to get a little excited about Grenier who falls into the latter.
This biggest problem for these command/control guys at the upper levels is they become terrified to throw strikes because they get hammered, so even with all their command, they live six inches OFF the plate, which does them no favors. It's why physical growth can be so important for them. E-Rod burst onto the national scene when he got stronger and threw harder. If Rom can follow a similar path, I believe he has the ability to be a similar kind of pitcher.
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35 minutes ago, wildcard said:
I agree defensively. How about when considering offense and defense?
Both have good pedigrees. Jones a 2nd rounder. Hays a 3rd rounder. Jones 23. Hays just turned 26. I think there is room for both on the team.
There well may be room for both of them on the team going forward- a lot of that will depend on Jones' development- but there obviously isn't room for both in LF at the same time.
Nobody knows the future, and a rebuilding team should be keeping all its options open, but I believe that Hays is a significantly better "prospect" than Jones, particularly if limiting them to LF.
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I'd be shocked if Jones was even in the same class as Hays defensively in LF.
Hays has played the best LF I can remember an Oriole doing in a long, long time.
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5 hours ago, Frobby said:
Their bottom line results are similar. They way they get there is very different. Rom is more stylistically similar to Davies than EdRod, though he’s a lefty.
Again, you're not wrong, but it is important to note that when Rodriguez started getting positive prospect writeups he didn't have the velocity he later developed. He started getting noticed as a 19 year old- nationally- and the reports were more about "four pitches," "command/control," "pitchability." Now Tony was in on Rodriguez a year or two before the national guys, saying much the things they would come to say.
Now, he's saying many of the same things about this kid. And frankly Rom has better minor league numbers than Rodriguez, including significantly higher K rates. So that's kind of what I'm asking:
1) Does this guy have that kind of upside?
2) It probably does include adding velocity. I notice they're both listed at 6'2" but Rom is listed as 50 lbs lighter than Rodriguez. What's the physical projection on Rom? Does he look like he can add strength to his frame?
I guess I'm a real slut, but when I hear about a 19 year old lefty with "four pitches" and "command/control," I get all wet.
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I'm starting to think we are 4-5 years away from competing for real
in Orioles Talk
Posted
They're not going to sign anybody in the minors to any kind of extension, so that's a non-starter.
The only people I see on the team worthy of an extension are Mullins- and I am in no hurry to give him one- Means- ditto- and Mancini- who I think is best traded.
Even if you could extend Mancini on a team friendly deal- say 4/40- would you? I don't think I would.