Pickles
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Posts posted by Pickles
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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
It wasn't from scratch.
Yes they spent little there but it wasn't from scratch. Dan did have a prior history in that area.
Folks make it sound as if this guy was the entirety of their operations.
Who in the development side precedes Elias?
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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
No, I said almost because I didn’t do the research to make sure all teams are jumping into the intl market with both feet or that they are doing the right things development wise.
What is undeniable is that every team can do what they need to contend and you don’t have to tank or be a bad team to do it. That is a fact. It’s not up for debate. It’s proven every year with several teams that you can play at a high level, draft in the 15-30 range, spend internationally and put a good product on the field.
Yes, and it takes a while to build that foundation.
And that's what they're attempting here.
Nobody here can really give any example of what SHOULD be done to get all these easy ML victories except call-up a pitcher who isn't prepared to throw 100 innings, and had never thrown an inning above A-ball before this year; and a catcher, that admittedly is probably worth 2-3 wins in 150 games.
So again, it always comes back to this: All this ink spilt for a handful of wins which won't impact our position in the standings one bit.
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1 minute ago, Frobby said:
How do you crash a product that won 47 games and had traded almost all its useful major league players before you arrived? I’d say the wreckage was already smoldering!
I'd like multiple people in this thread to answer that question.
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2 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Promoting Grayson.
You don't think he'd improve the pitching staff?
They could have easily added affordable free agent talent (or not dumped ML talent) during the offseason.
If Grayson had been in the OD rotation he'd have been shut down by the all-star break? I concede you'd probably get an extra win or two out of it.
So what was stopping the Rays from signing "affordable free agent talent" when they were so bad, but not tanking, because they were just bad?
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1 minute ago, Can_of_corn said:
The O's could easily improve the talent of the ML are are choosing not to.
Beyond promoting Rutchsman, what are those easy fixes?
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7 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
I'm not sold the Rays were actively tanking. I remember them just being that bad. Were the 1988 Orioles tanking?
By that definition are we tanking?
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Just now, Frobby said:
I wouldn’t say the farm system he inherited was terrible. It had Manny, Schoop, Eduardo Rodriguez, Zach Davies, Dylan Bundy and Mychal Givens, as well as several promising pitchers who had been up and down (Tillman, Arrieta, Britton, Matusz). I guess those four had lost rookie eligibility so they weren’t technically prospects. There were some lesser pieces like Caleb Joseph and Christian Walker.
Yeah, DD didn't inherit a terrible farm system.
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After the last two series, bullpen help is much welcomed.
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6 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
How exactly is Adley supposed to produce at the ML level with Elias gaming his service time?
I'm guessing Grayson would be an improvement over what we currently have on the roster as well.
All 80 innings they'd get out of him this year?
Funny, I thought the point of having prospects was to develop them in the best players they can be, not rush them to the MLs to prove how terrific the farm system was before you got here to the detriment of the franchise.
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4 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
You think he's got a shot at the WS in year four?
Is Angelos going to give him the money to sign two HOF FA pitchers in their prime?
If he does, I'd say, yeah.
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And the four assets you mention there, combined for less than half a win at the ML level so far this year.
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3 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:
Mountcastle, Grayson, Hall and a 1-1 pick.
Folks really love to cry how bad things were when Elias got here. If the place was ineptly run as folks like to think how did they ever manage to have a window in the first place?
Yes he came into a rough spot. The Diamonbacks went from literally nothing to a WS title in four years.
Elias hasn't even been here for three years.
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1 hour ago, Frobby said:
It reminds me of when Aubrey Huff posted an .891 OPS for the 2010 Giants and they won the World Series. Then they re-signed him for 2/$20 mm and he stunk for two years (but they won the 2012 WS anyways).
It also reminds me a bit of the 2013 Red Sox who gave big contracts to Victorino, Napoli, Drew and Gomes. They all played great in 2013 and they won the WS, then the Sox went back to last place for two years.
But nobody’s giving back their trophies.
Something has been going on in San Francisco for a decade + now that defies logic.
I mean, it's just a really bad comparison on multiple levels for many reasons. Most of which have been hashed out here.
Like I said, let's revisit this in three years. I bet it looks radically different. And no amount of money can prop up an aging core indefinitely.
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5 minutes ago, TonySoprano said:
Big difference between not improving the product and not crashing the product (tanking).
So by that definition Elias isn't tanking. Good. I agree.
Well, except he is improving the ML product too.
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15 minutes ago, Can_of_corn said:Elias just didn't want Adley hanging around with a bunch of losers.
That will preclude calling him up to the Majors for a while.
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Just now, Frobby said:
Maybe the Giants have found the new market inefficiency — undervalued older players. And I’m only half-joking.
The thing is, those guys aren't undervalued. Those are mostly the 5 big inherited contracts Zaidi took over.
They're just living up to their salaries, all at the same time, in ways none of them have in a few years.
This is no sustainable.
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Let's revisit this in three years. I bet the view is radically different then.
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2 minutes ago, Frobby said:
He’d have to hit much better to justify himself. And I’m not saying that’s impossible, because he’s hit better at other times. But I’m not at all confident he’ll do so.
Somebody mentioned Jack Cust. Like yeah, that could happen. That's in the realm of possibility. We cut Stewart, and he catches on somewhere and has 3-4 year run as a valuable DH. I'm pretty sure that isn't happening, but it might.
The thing is, he may field like Cust but he doesn't hit like him. Cust was just a better hitter. Even in the minors, DJ only really ever hit enough to make you think you could carry the rest of him in half a season at 25 in AAA and a season at 23 at AA.
This is what a rebuild is though. We're learning things. Some of it is good. I'm really happy in what I've learned about Mullins this year for instance.
Some of it not so good. And as the OP states, from what I've learned about Stewart, I'm pretty much done with him.
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1 minute ago, Frobby said:
He played OK in 2018 and 2020, enough to deserve further looks. He’d been worth a total of 0.8 rWAR in 92 games prior to this year. That’s not horrible. But -0.6 rWAR in 75 games this year is pretty horrible.
I definitely think he's deserved looks. And again there are always teams in a rebuild situation who would give a guy like him some. Rightfully so.
And I don't think he needs to be cut tomorrow or anything either.
But he's not a winning player. And I feel pretty confident in that judgement, though I'm hardly infallible.
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24 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:
No - the infamous ball doink was 8/6, looks like he was called up on 5/28.
HOWEVA, looking at his game logs, it looks like that may have been his 1st game back after getting hurt after his callup and then working his way back up. So you were still a bit off the mark, but perhaps closer than it seemed at first
Memory is a faulty thing. I remember watching that game live, specifically to get a look at Stewart, who I had defended a bit as he worked his way through the system. I remember it being a "debut" for Stewart. Looks like he had just returned from an extended absence, and it was his eighth appearance on the year. As you pointed out he had been a September call-up the year before.
I think looking at the game logs has jogged my memory. So he took the beaner, and was out for ten days, and returned Aug 16, which was in Boston. Which jogs the memory. I believe he almost killed himself chasing a foulball over near Pesky's pole his first game back.
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1 minute ago, interloper said:
Exactly, which is how we ended up with guys like Ubaldo and Cobb on whack contracts.
Meanwhile a guy like Jason Hammel was a great find. We need guys like that. Have to be a little creative. It annoys me that we passed on a guy like Taijuan Walker back when he was had for a 1-year deal.
If by creative you mean lucky, yeah, that will help.
It's also why trading Dylan Bundy to get prospects, just to go out and sign a FA pitcher 12 months later because goddamn it I can just taste that 67th win, doesn't make a lot of sense.
Because you're almost certainly going to have pay more for a worse pitcher.
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1 minute ago, interloper said:
I guess what I'm saying is, which positions are you spending money on in the offseason to fill? For me, it's 3B, SP, and RP. Everywhere else is kind of set with homegrown guys. But in re: to SP, it's going to be tough getting someone signed here who would be a vast improvement. Obviously they should try, it's just a really tough market to be in if you're a 100-loss team. You're the last place people want to go to.
Don't forget to mention pitching in the most difficult environment in professional baseball.
The O's are going to have to radically overpay to get FA pitchers- of all tiers except the very bottom.
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2 minutes ago, glenn__davis said:
No, wasn't anywhere near his MLB debut, which was nearly a full year earlier.
Was that his first game up that year then? Remember, the explanation that he wasn't used to playing in double-tiered stadiums?
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4 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
Because I would rather have the FA and the pieces we got for Bundy than just Bundy himself. Buy and sell.
Ok, I guess.
Olney on O’s losing
in Orioles Talk
Posted
Hell, the scouting side for that matter?
The ML coaching staff?