tntoriole

I would disagree… i watched a number of his pre injury starts and he is not capable as yet of anything approaching that fastball and changeup command. His mechanics, always a bit hinky, are just not the same as pre injury. He hit the first batter and he throws a lot of balls that are balls right out of his hand. Very little of that pre injury

Yes .. but we have had the totally unexpected gifts of Cano, Coulombe … just goes to show you .. no matter how much evaluators think they know, the games are played by human beings and will always surprise us both negatively and positively. Baseball is life.

I think TOR pitchers are not as valuable as expressed on this board .. and if we added another Kyle Gibson would it be that much different than GRod will be ? Marginal .. Pennants used to be won with 4 starters, not five .. I am ok with our 4 and fifth of whomever Irvin, GRod, Means in Sept etc But in this era.. where even TOR pitchers pitch shorter, then I think the overwhelming bullpen model is more attainable and more flexible and thus more valuable. I was verry impressed in 2014 by how much just adding Andrew Miller transformed a good team into a really really good team .. Pat Dobson and Steve Stone were not TOR great pitchers but good enough to win 20 with a strong offense and defense..

Give me Hader and Speier .. it will cost us major prospects.. but ultra bullpen vs the Verlander that doesn’t exist anyway

I will take adding Josh Hader and Gabe Speier and what we have currently and go with it.

It would be much easier to strongly upgrade middle relief than find a 7 inning TOR available in trade.

Hicks, Santander, Mullins, Hays Mountcastle, Ohearn Frazier, Westburg Henderson, Mateo Urias Rutschman/backup

Imagine that

Gameday completely shut down in ninth and still not up .. MLB is useless as far as apps go compared to any other sport or entertainment

My man Adam! “Hey rook.. not quite your job yet. “. Old man still has a swing or two left.

Good job rook!

They took it away from the fans for awhile in the old days too .. same reason.. home fan ballot stuffing

5 lousy innings .. a disaster of a start .. 6 runs , 5 innings.

So now our bats give up and Gibson has pitched just horribly enough to lose another stupid series to an NL central team

Exactly… i hate the term “innings eater” .. it inevitably describes a mediocre to lousy pitcher. I liked the old term journeyman better or ragarm

Hey Gibson ..see what their guy just did? Like that!!!

What was the excuse for his last start? This is the big boy league. Gibson has failed to do his job two starts in a row.. period. His job is to get innings and outs.. fail. problem with Gibson is you get 7 excellent starts, 12 mediocre starts, and 7 horrible starts ..

Now their guy will turn into Cy Young and we won’t score again

6 runs in two innings .. he isn’t going to get to four

We are going to need double digits in runs again

Gibson has been abysmal his last two starts in a row .. i don’t mean sort of bad , but as bad as a so called major league pitcher can be ..

As was the topic in another thread .. I would really like to see rentals of Josh Hader and/or Aroldis Chapman if we can get one or both of them .

We would have a better chance of signing Babe Ruth

I think another lockdown bullpen arm would do more even than a starter. I still think Irvin can pitch better than he has and I still think Grod will be on this team and hopefully pitching better.

Nice two innings by Irvin