Brooks The Great

One of the reasons I think Brandon Hyde is a bad manager is that he does the simple-minded thing and will bat a below average player like Adam Frazier in the leadoff spot, and leave him there because Frazier is a veteran. Frazier has a .299 OBP on the season, he has no business leading off whatsoever. It's time to make major changes with this lineup. Fortunately it seems that Elias is aware of how Mountcastle should be platooned based on his usage the past few games, but the team needs to phase out Mateo, Mountcastle, and Frazier as soon as possible. It's past time for Westburg, Ortiz, and Coswer to be promoted and start getting acclimated to everyday at bats. All 3 guys are part of the future, and can help the team win now.

Mateo should exclusively be a pinch runner on this team. That's how terrible he is as a hitter, and also how good of a glove Joey Ortiz has.

They'll fall in line. A lot of prospect rankings and lists is groupthink among that community. Some of the scouts/analysts are afraid to be bullish or bearish on certain players without seeing peers change opinions on a player first. Mayo has had a phenomenal season. He deserves to be a Top 80 guy now and I think he'll wind up a Top 25 guy or better before getting called up to the majors.

So it's pretty clear to me that Elias is purely gaming Super 2 with Westburg. Westburg should have been on the Opening Day roster, and the O's would have been a better team at this point as a result. Does anyone have a general idea of the Super 2 deadline this month? I know it's a moving target based on other teams' promotions, but any info would be appreciated.

I don't think Westburg will be traded. He'll be up with the major league team (most likely this month unless he gets hurt) because he'll make the Orioles a better team and he'll help the team get into the playoffs, bottom line. Trading Westburg just because of a below average, overpaid player like Frazier is too short-sighted and doesn't fit the MO of this front office. Everything they have done with their drafts and major league moves has been with the future in mind, and keeping Westburg, who is a legitmate middle of the order bat with defensive versatility, would be something this front office would and will do. Trading Westburg because of Frazier would be foolish. It's not going to happen. Will happily admit it if I wind up being proven wrong, but I doubt I'll be wrong on that.

Westburg can definitely play RF, though, and that would allow Santander to play 1B. I actually think Westburg has always been the most important callup for this team because we have so many bad options against LHP. But Cowser coming up can also push Santander to 1B. I'd also take Urias at 1B over Mountcastle in general, even though Urias has struggled recently. But I think that's related to the injury that put Urias on the IL. Mountcastle isn't needed on this team at all given his poor overall offensive production and that he's been a defensive liability this season, but I would keep him as a DH and occasional 1B against LHP. Once Cowser and Westburg are up, Mountcastle is actually (or should be) one of the odd men out as a regular in the starting lineup.

I can argue with willingly keeping talent in the minors that could help this team. I honestly think the team would be 20 games over .500 or better with a better manager, Westburg and Ortiz called up earlier/given more playing time, and if Frazier had never been signed. Those things can't be changed retroactively obviously, but the right moves can be made in the future to correct major issues with the team. The team and the front office should always be striving to improve. I'm not going to be satisfied with the current record when I think this team could have been even better, and could be even better moving forward by moving on from players who aren't producing. Mountcastle, Mateo, Frazier, McKenna, Voth, Perez - we have options in the minors who can replace these guys and who have a good chance to be more productive. Just because minor leaguers frequently struggle after being promoted to the majors isn't an excuse to keep them down in every single instance. I'm sorry, two of the worst OBP's in major league baseball from Mateo and Mountcastle can be improved upon by almost anyone, especially prospects who have demonstrated excellent on-base skills (Cowser, and to a lesser extent Westburg) and great exit velocities (Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser) in the minors.

Having Mateo and Mountcastle and their atrocious OBP's is devastating to a lineup. Elias needs to step up and help this team win now instead of slow-playing every single prospect for 2 or 3 years from now. Bring up Cowser, Westburg, and Ortiz, and bench Mateo in general and Mountcastle against righties.

Mountcastle should be strictly platooned, if not sent to Norfolk to regroup. If the Jays can demote Alek Manoah, the Orioles can demote Mountcastle. Mateo needs to be benched as well, and Ortiz given a shot to play everyday SS. This team could be so much better by utilizing one of its strengths - its minor league system. A lineup with Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz in it would be so much better. This team keeps leaving wins on the table with poor roster management by Elias and bad game management and lineup optimization by Hyde.

There are contending teams who could use a guy like Urias as a starter at an infield position, or as a utility guy. The Dodgers were in bad shape once Gavin Lux got hurt, and they still might need an infielder at the deadline. Other players on other teams will get hurt, and there will be a need for a player like Urias. Worse players than Urias have been traded at the deadline for good returns. Gerardo Parra is just one of many examples. I think we could get a couple of Single A arms for Urias, or a hitting prospect and pitching prospect at the lower levels. Or maybe a AAA arm that profiles as a reliever who can contribute in the short-term could be part of a package. Urias should be traded. He doesn't fit the long-term plans of the team, he's frequently injured, and guys like Westburg and Ortiz could very likely be more productive than him, or at least provide similar production. Like I said, no-brainer to trade Urias. Santander should be traded as well if the return is right. Pitching would be ideal, but once again, I trust Elias to make a smart trade. But this thread is about Urias, so I won't go too much into other players. With that said, I think there are other teams who would value DL Hall as a secondary piece in a deal. Not every team has a great GM making decisions and evaluating talent, and just because you don't think Hall has trade value, doesn't mean that another team doesn't value him.

I never said that Urias can bring back a starting pitcher on his own. Not sure why you ask that question leading off your post. If you're simply stating that Urias only makes sense to trade if he brings back a starting pitcher, I totally disagree with that. And yes, I do know that Urias doesn't have enough value to bring back a starting pitcher. But I have no idea why you'd lead off a response with that kind of question, though. It's not applicable to what I said. I also disagree that Urias would need to be part of a package. He may be part of a package, but he can be traded on his own as well. I simply said the Orioles need to trade Urias. I have full faith that Elias would get decent value for him. And it doesn't necessarily need to be pitching, although there's a good chance Elias would try to land pitching in return. And there's added value in opening up playing time for Ortiz and Westburg that a Urias trade would make possible as well. To answer your other question, I'd trade Norby, Prieto, Hall, and Stowers. But I'd trade Urias, Mateo, and Santander first. I'd trade Mountcastle too, but he might have the least perceived value to other teams of any of those guys.

It's a no-brainer to deal Urias and keep Westburg and Ortiz. Westburg at 1B, Ortiz at 2B, Holliday at SS and Gunnar at 3B would be an awesome infield on both sides of the ball. Or perhaps Kjerstad/Mayo at 1B, Westburg at 2B, Holliday at short and Gunnar at 3B would work for more offensive upside. Urias is a verstatile and valuable guy, but he's older and due to get more expensive much sooner than any of the prospects coming up. The organization also invested very little to originally acquire him, so dealing him away for whatever value the O's can extract is the best way to set the team up for sustained success with all the prospects currently in the minors.

Don't forget Westburg.

Better than an oblique injury. But I'll take Westburg finally coming up so that we can start getting rid of the weak links on the roster once Gunnar comes back.

Any updates on Gunnar would be appreciated. Hoping it’s not an oblique.

I really do think it's time to DFA Voth and Perez. If Voth in particular struggles in a game like today's, then why is he on the roster? He's been nothing special in short outings, and if he can't provide any length, I don't see what kind of value he adds. Perez has been terrible all season outside of a brief stretch earlier this month. Both Voth and Perez allow way too many baserunners to be assets to this bullpen. Time to part ways with both pitchers that were waiver wire pickups and found money. Get Irvin and Vespi up as soon as their pitching schedules allow.

I'm sure they would. Less at bats moving forward for Mountcastle, Mateo, and McCann - and lineups featuring Cowser and Westburg - will really force opposing pitchers to work hard.

Hicks is terrible, and this is an awful signing. Hopefully it winds up being a faiily inconsequential move to provide emergency depth, and Cowser gets the call fairly soon. I'm relieved that it's Hays in CF tonight - I thought we were going to see McKenna every day in CF for several games.

I've been saying since April that the lineup against LHP is a major issue. McCann is one of the worst hitters in baseball, he shouldn't be getting DH starts - period. It really irks me that Elias and Hyde treat McCann like he's Edgar Martinez against lefties. Honestly, Vavra at DH against lefties would be better than McCann. At least Vavra can see some pitches and make a pitcher work. McCann's OPS+ is 44! That's preposterously abysmal. And he's done that mostly getting deployed as the C when Adley DH's and as the DH against LHP. It needs to stop.

I agree, he's really not. I've seen enough baseball in my life to know that McKenna has misplayed way too many fly balls this season alone to be considered a good defender. And honestly, once Cowser is up, whether McKenna is actually a good defensive OF is just so inconsequential to the team's success at that point. I can't wait for McKenna and his stupid bandana to get sent down to the minors where he belongs.

We can agree to disagree. I believe McKenna and O'Hearn are exactly who will get DFA'd when Cowser and Westburg get called up barring injuries.

So this is assuming everyone is healthy obviously. But you drop McKenna over O'Hearn because McKenna's value to the team is as a defensive replacement - and I'm not even sold on him as a defensive replacement because he's had several unacceptable defensive lapses this season. Once Cowser is up, there's no need to replace anyone defensively in the outfield late in games. McKenna's not worth rostering just as a defensive replacement on the rare days Mullins/Hays/Cowser have a day off, because Santander can slide into the OF on those days. And then whoever had the day off can defensively replace Santander late in games. Also, for all the people who think McKenna might actually be good, he can prove that in the minors playing every day and build up some trade value. That has way more utility to the organization than McKenna sitting on the bench and sporadically playing. O'Hearn has more value (and that's not saying much because I don't think McKenna should even be on the roster) as a pinch hitter and occassionally spelling Mountcastle at 1B against righties. But O'Hearn is super expendable as well. It's just that Cowser is an OF and Westburg can play OF, and if Ortiz starts playing SS every day, then Mateo can also serve as an occasional emergency OF as well. He played some OF in spring training, so I'm certain Mateo can play any of the outfield spots in a pinch for an inning or two. McKenna needs to go.

It's a problem because we have bad hitters at the bottom of the lineup. Just like I was saying that McKenna isn't as good as his small sample size performance reflected because he's not a good hitter, the O's performance against lefties featuring McCann, McKenna, Frazier, Mateo, etc. isn't sustainable. We need better hitters replacing those guys. To be a winning team - and to be a good GM, manager, etc. - you need to be proactive. You need to anticipate problems and address deficiencies before they hurt the team with losses. Reciting the statistics and simply reacting to them isn't enough. Talent evaluation and analysis of the statistics are crucial context to the results. You're basically saying, "The O's have performed fine against lefties, there's no problem, why fix something that isn't broken?" I'm telling you that the talent doesn't back up the results, and that we can expect the team perform worse moving forward using the same hitters against lefties. I'm telling you that complacency with the roster and lineups featuring these same players won't ensure wins and future performance. We won't know for sure until we see how the team performs, but feel free to bump this in a couple months if I'm wrong. Because I'll definitely bump it if I'm right. McKenna, McCann, Frazier, Mateo - these guys aren't good hitters overall. Sure, they're better taking into account their strong-side splits, but that doesn't mean they should continue to get at bats at the expense of more talented prospects. Frazier has been hot, but I'm not sold on him as a good hitter overall. Prior to this season, Frazier has a long track record as league average hitter with above average defense - essentially two seasons as a well above average hitter, two seasons as a well below average hitter, and a little less than 2 and a half seasons as an average hitter. He's average. Just because a right-handed hitter is passable against left-handed pitching (or a lefty hitter against a righty pitcher in Frazier's case) doesn't mean that they should get at bats over a talented prospect who could potentially offer more production not only against left-handed pitching, but overall. We have three prospects who are ready to contribute to the major league team. Let's give them that chance and very likely improve the team while doing so.

I never said Cowser should take his role. Cowser should take over as the regular LF, move Hays to RF, and make Santander the regular DH.

Just because it's "standard" doesn't mean it isn't weak. The lineups against lefties have been a problem all season, the team just hasn't really paid for it yet. That lineup is the biggest reason for bringing up Westburg. He'd immediately be an upgrade offensively (whether it's for McCann when he starts as a DH, Frazier at 2B, or McKenna in RF) and lengthen the lineup against lefties. Also, has McKenna really hit well? .273/.317/.735 is nothing special, especially considering it includes a red hot two or three week stretch of limited and inconsistent at bats. He's just two or three more 0-4 games from having a bad stat line. Lots of posters on this board were fooled by a small sample size, and ignored McKenna's established track record of poor production as a hitter prior to this season.