Brooks The Great

That's not what I said. I said I'd prefer seeing Odor at the league minimum again to paying Adam Frazier $8 million and getting the production Frazier has provided. I hated Odor last season and would never want him back. But I despise the Frazier signing even more. Especially considering Frazier has blocked Ortiz and Westburg for the entire season. O's Hangout is the ultimate place where people put words in your mouth. It's super annoying. Now I just need DirtyBird to come in and drop a one-liner of pure nonsense.

For the salary, that production makes him a scrub. I've qualified that in previous posts, but not specifically in that one you quoted. Although I did point out that he's overpaid - which he most certainly is - in that particular post. I honestly would much prefer Odor and his production for his salary last year to Frazier's production and salary this year, and that's a pathetic reflection of Frazier and the decision Elias made to sign him.

One home run isn't going to change my mind that Frazier is a below overage, overpaid hitter. It also won't change my mind that Westburg will be a more productive 2B and that he should replace Frazier as soon as possible (although I know Elias won't make that change anytime soon).

Honestly, it looks like Mountcastle has already started to be platooned. Perhaps he's still not feeling well, but I don't know why they haven't put him on the IL if that's the case.

And minus Frazier.

Just looking at the home runs runs says very little about any of the players. However, if you look at batting average, on base percentage, OPS, and OPS+, Frazier is a far inferior hitter to both Hays and Adley this season. Frazier is hitting .232 (terrible) with an OBP of .298 (terrible) and OPS of .694 (mediocre). His OPS+ is 93, so he's 7 percent below league average. At $8 million per year, that's poor value compared to Odor last season, and I wanted Odor off the team the entire season. Westburg could have and should have replaced Odor last season as well, and it might have been the difference in the Orioles making the playoffs. Hays and Adley both have OPS's over 100 points higher than Frazier. Hays' OPS+ is 130 and Rutschman is at 126 OPS+ - they are both in a different stratosphere compared to Frazier. I have no idea why you would simply look at only home runs as a way of comparing Frazier to Hays and Rutschman.

I'd be totally fine with that, because it would mean Elias extracted good value for him in a trade. I'm also fine with Santander DHing and playing 1B in what would be the best offense in baseball (if Cowser, Westburg, Ortiz, and Kjerstad are all in the lineup) from a talent perspective.

The eye test and OPS+ makes me feel that the Fangraphs WAR is more accurate. Frazier is a below average hitter/scrub, and Westburg would be an upgrade over him whenever Westburg is finally promoted.

Ortiz replacing Mateo as well. Cowser, Westburg, and Ortiz essentially replacing Mountcastle, Frazier, and Mateo in the lineup would be a clear upgrade, and perhaps a significant upgrade in the aggregate.

I'm hoping the reason is that he's waiting for the Super 2 deadline to pass in a week or two.

Even if the statistics and analytics show that Mullins doesn't hit well leading off an inning and that he's much better with men on base, Hyde is still always going to bat him leadoff. And honestly if Cedric prefers leading off for the team, I'm fine with him there. 1. Mullins CF 2. Adley C 3. Gunnar 3B 4. Santander DH 5. Hays RF 6. Cowser LF 7. Westburg 2B 8. O'Hearn/Urias 1B 9. Ortiz SS Against lefties, Mountcastle could play 1B and hit 5th or 6th. And in September and for the playoffs (assuming Westburg and Cowser have gotten themselves acclimated): 1. Mullins CF 2 Adley C 3. Gunnar 3B 4. Westburg 2B 5. Cowser LF 6. Santander 1B/DH 7. Hays RF 8. Kjerstad DH/1B 9. Ortiz SS That lineup would be incredible, and it's very possible. Santander at cleanup with spots 4-7 being the same as the first lineup would also work if Westburg and/or Cowser are still adjusting to major league pitching.

So according to this line of thinking, the Orioles should never promote Westburg and Cowser. The "prospects stuggle" and "we don't know that they'd be better than what we have" excuses for not promoting them are BS. Even if Westburg and Cowser have an adjustment period, the team should get that out of the way so that they're more ready to contribute in the playoffs. Not only that, but guys like Mountcastle and Mateo are simply not producing, and they are two of the worst hitters in the league in terms of reaching base. Westburg and Cowser have a good chance to provide similar or better production to players like Mountcastle (Cowser starting in LF and pushing Hays to RF and Santander 1B/DH essentially makes Cowser a replacement for Mountcastle), Mateo, Frazier, Lester, O'Hearn, McCann (at DH), McKenna, and Hicks. Getting Westburg and Cowser (and Ortiz) up as soon as possible potentially makes the Orioles a better team immediately, and expedites the learning curve so that they can contribute to the team longer-term with more certainty.

They're both terrible. But I'd prefer Hicks to McKenna. Hopefully in September neither will be on the team, since Cowser, Westburg, and Kjerstad can all play OF.

I like these. I would add Ortiz promoted, Mateo to bench. That could/should actually be one of the first moves since Elias seems to be manipulating service time for Cowser and Westburg.

I agree on Cowser. I actually think the path is clear on Westburg because he's sorely needed on this team. It's easy to get Westburg at bats because of his versatility, and because the team has so many players struggling (Mateo, Frazier, Mountcastle, McCann). Westburg can easily play 2B and just replace Frazier outright - I really think Elias is too smart to let a poor free agent signing continue to hurt the team. If I'm wrong and Elias is too proud/stubborn to mandate Frazier's benching to Hyde, then Westburg can still play in RF and bump Santander to 1B. Westburg can also easily DH regularly. Freaking James McCann has gotten way too many starts at DH against lefties - that should at minimum be Westburg at DH every time out. Mateo can't possibly have much more rope left, so Westburg can also play SS ocassionally, although I think SS should be handed over to Joey Ortiz as soon as possible. Easy to write Westburg into the lineup most days.

One of the reasons I think Brandon Hyde is a bad manager is that he does the simple-minded thing and will bat a below average player like Adam Frazier in the leadoff spot, and leave him there because Frazier is a veteran. Frazier has a .299 OBP on the season, he has no business leading off whatsoever. It's time to make major changes with this lineup. Fortunately it seems that Elias is aware of how Mountcastle should be platooned based on his usage the past few games, but the team needs to phase out Mateo, Mountcastle, and Frazier as soon as possible. It's past time for Westburg, Ortiz, and Coswer to be promoted and start getting acclimated to everyday at bats. All 3 guys are part of the future, and can help the team win now.

Mateo should exclusively be a pinch runner on this team. That's how terrible he is as a hitter, and also how good of a glove Joey Ortiz has.

They'll fall in line. A lot of prospect rankings and lists is groupthink among that community. Some of the scouts/analysts are afraid to be bullish or bearish on certain players without seeing peers change opinions on a player first. Mayo has had a phenomenal season. He deserves to be a Top 80 guy now and I think he'll wind up a Top 25 guy or better before getting called up to the majors.

So it's pretty clear to me that Elias is purely gaming Super 2 with Westburg. Westburg should have been on the Opening Day roster, and the O's would have been a better team at this point as a result. Does anyone have a general idea of the Super 2 deadline this month? I know it's a moving target based on other teams' promotions, but any info would be appreciated.

I don't think Westburg will be traded. He'll be up with the major league team (most likely this month unless he gets hurt) because he'll make the Orioles a better team and he'll help the team get into the playoffs, bottom line. Trading Westburg just because of a below average, overpaid player like Frazier is too short-sighted and doesn't fit the MO of this front office. Everything they have done with their drafts and major league moves has been with the future in mind, and keeping Westburg, who is a legitmate middle of the order bat with defensive versatility, would be something this front office would and will do. Trading Westburg because of Frazier would be foolish. It's not going to happen. Will happily admit it if I wind up being proven wrong, but I doubt I'll be wrong on that.

Westburg can definitely play RF, though, and that would allow Santander to play 1B. I actually think Westburg has always been the most important callup for this team because we have so many bad options against LHP. But Cowser coming up can also push Santander to 1B. I'd also take Urias at 1B over Mountcastle in general, even though Urias has struggled recently. But I think that's related to the injury that put Urias on the IL. Mountcastle isn't needed on this team at all given his poor overall offensive production and that he's been a defensive liability this season, but I would keep him as a DH and occasional 1B against LHP. Once Cowser and Westburg are up, Mountcastle is actually (or should be) one of the odd men out as a regular in the starting lineup.

I can argue with willingly keeping talent in the minors that could help this team. I honestly think the team would be 20 games over .500 or better with a better manager, Westburg and Ortiz called up earlier/given more playing time, and if Frazier had never been signed. Those things can't be changed retroactively obviously, but the right moves can be made in the future to correct major issues with the team. The team and the front office should always be striving to improve. I'm not going to be satisfied with the current record when I think this team could have been even better, and could be even better moving forward by moving on from players who aren't producing. Mountcastle, Mateo, Frazier, McKenna, Voth, Perez - we have options in the minors who can replace these guys and who have a good chance to be more productive. Just because minor leaguers frequently struggle after being promoted to the majors isn't an excuse to keep them down in every single instance. I'm sorry, two of the worst OBP's in major league baseball from Mateo and Mountcastle can be improved upon by almost anyone, especially prospects who have demonstrated excellent on-base skills (Cowser, and to a lesser extent Westburg) and great exit velocities (Ortiz, Westburg, and Cowser) in the minors.

Having Mateo and Mountcastle and their atrocious OBP's is devastating to a lineup. Elias needs to step up and help this team win now instead of slow-playing every single prospect for 2 or 3 years from now. Bring up Cowser, Westburg, and Ortiz, and bench Mateo in general and Mountcastle against righties.

Mountcastle should be strictly platooned, if not sent to Norfolk to regroup. If the Jays can demote Alek Manoah, the Orioles can demote Mountcastle. Mateo needs to be benched as well, and Ortiz given a shot to play everyday SS. This team could be so much better by utilizing one of its strengths - its minor league system. A lineup with Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz in it would be so much better. This team keeps leaving wins on the table with poor roster management by Elias and bad game management and lineup optimization by Hyde.

There are contending teams who could use a guy like Urias as a starter at an infield position, or as a utility guy. The Dodgers were in bad shape once Gavin Lux got hurt, and they still might need an infielder at the deadline. Other players on other teams will get hurt, and there will be a need for a player like Urias. Worse players than Urias have been traded at the deadline for good returns. Gerardo Parra is just one of many examples. I think we could get a couple of Single A arms for Urias, or a hitting prospect and pitching prospect at the lower levels. Or maybe a AAA arm that profiles as a reliever who can contribute in the short-term could be part of a package. Urias should be traded. He doesn't fit the long-term plans of the team, he's frequently injured, and guys like Westburg and Ortiz could very likely be more productive than him, or at least provide similar production. Like I said, no-brainer to trade Urias. Santander should be traded as well if the return is right. Pitching would be ideal, but once again, I trust Elias to make a smart trade. But this thread is about Urias, so I won't go too much into other players. With that said, I think there are other teams who would value DL Hall as a secondary piece in a deal. Not every team has a great GM making decisions and evaluating talent, and just because you don't think Hall has trade value, doesn't mean that another team doesn't value him.