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drdelaware

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    30 for 30

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted · Edited by drdelaware

    I don't have any particular nostalgia for the 30th anniversary at Camden Yards.  I love the ballpark, but until the Orioles win a championship there it is just a very nice building.  My primary Orioles memories are all still from Memorial Stadium.  Keep in mind I am almost 54 years old and I understand how younger people may feel more fond of Oriole Park than I do.  Until they win, 30 years at Oriole Park is a yawn to me.  Hopefully they make some REAL memories at the Yard soon.  I was almost embarrassed when they celebrated a division championship with a ceremony there.

    Signature Moments

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted

    Brooks Robinson’s final HR

    Last game at Memorial Stadium ceremony

    Eddie Murray’s 500th HR

    Tito Landrum’s HR in the 83 playoffs

    The final series of the 82 season with the Brewers

     

    • Upvote 2

    Let’s Be Buyers

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted

    I’d stand pat and just wait for talent to come up from AAA.   I don’t think Mancini or Santander will bring much in return.  We are starting to see some signs of life at the big league level so I’d prefer not to see the rug pulled out from under the team unless they start dropping a ton of games in a row.   In no way shape or form would I trade Mullins or Hays without a blow away offer.

    • Upvote 2

    Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted · Edited by drdelaware

    51 minutes ago, Gofannon said:

    There is no true argument in favor of retiring Mike Cuellar's number and no one has ever suggested it before now. It is only a weak part of an argument not to retire Mussina’s number.

    I'm not suggesting retiring #35 for Cuellar or Mussina.  However if you do that for MM, then Cuellar becomes part of the equation.

    Only number at the moment I would retire is #44 for Elrod.  I don't care if he isn't a Hall of Famer.  Meant so much to this franchise.  I would advocate that one.

    • Upvote 1

    Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted

    1 hour ago, Frobby said:

    My “ridiculous” description was aimed at the specific arguments that you made for Cuellar in your prior post:

    1.   Relying on the fact that Cuellar’s W-L record was somewhere close to Mussina’s, without accounting for the fact that Cuellar played on much better teams.  
    2.  Relying on the fact that Cuellar had a lower raw ERA, without accounting for the fact that Mussina played in a more hitter-friendly era, in a more hitter-friendly ballpark, and had nowhere near the defensive support that Cuellar did. 
    3.  Relying on the fact that Cuellar went to three World Series, again without accounting for the fact that Cuellar’s teammates were way better than Mussina’s.  

    So, now I’m going to your “Mussina hated pitching beyond the sixth or seventh inning” argument.  In his 9.5 seasons in Baltimore, Mussina finished top 5 in the league in IP four times, top 10 six times.  He was in the top 5 in complete games twice, top 10 five times.    By my count, he pitched at last into the 8th inning in 125 of his 288 starts as an Oriole.  So that argument is flatly wrong.

    The “Mussina never won anything” argument is just a rehash of the “Cuellar went to three WS” argument, addressed above.  

    Please understand that I haven’t argued that Mussina’s number should be retired.  I’m essentially neural on that.  But his case to have his number retired is better than Cuellar’s.

    You want to retire the number in honor of their combined accomplishments?   I could get behind that.   The Yankees retired number 8 in honor of both Bill Dickey and Yogi Berra; they didn’t choose who deserved it more.  That would have been a very close call if the Yankees had to choose.   Much closer than Cuellar vs. Mussina.  

    One of my biggest problems with retiring Cuellar’s number, is what do you do with McNally?   

     

    With you there.  That is the big part of retiring numbers.  Where do you stop?

    O's HOF is good enough for both Mussina and Cuellar.  Not advocating the number for either of them.

    Side note another O's Hall of Famer wore #35 too.

    Should Mike Mussina’s number have been retired?

    in Orioles Talk

    Posted

    16 hours ago, Frobby said:

    How ridiculous is this argument?   Mussina had a better W-L record while playing on worse teams.  He played in a much more offense-friendly era than Cuellar.  Mussina’s 130 ERA+ as an Oriole dwarfs Cuellar’s 109.   I loved Cuellar but Mussina was by far the better pitcher.   The fact that Cuellar played on three WS teams is irrelevant, it just reflects that Cuellar had a much better team around him than Mussina did.  

    Ridiculous?  We will have to agree to disagree.  Simple fact is Mussina never won anything.  Hated pitching past the 6th or 7th.  He was a great pitcher though.  Retiring that number for him and not including Cuellar is what would be ridiculous.  If it were for both?  Maybe.

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