banks703

The recent moves (the Irvin one especially and yes I openly criticized it) has put them in bad spots with having to run guys like Cionel and Cano, Baumann, Danny .. etc out there for as many as three straight days. I don’t know exactly what I would have done different outside of not optioning Irvin but I probably would not have claimed Jorge Lopez. As crazy as it is, given his own struggles at various parts of this season, I think I would run Cionel out there for the ninth (if we’re attaching ourselves to set roles, which I despise) over Cano. Cionel has been nails the last five or six weeks. I know that he wasn’t available last night. I just mean generally speaking, if they’re anointing a “Closer” while Felix is out, I think I would rather have Cionel in that role right now. And yes the starters not giving enough innings is draining the pen. Cleveland is a tough matchup for the O’s bullpen guys because the Guards don’t strike out. In 425 ABs Naylor has K’d 66 times this year. That’s not quite Tony Gwynn territory but Tony Gwynn (my all-time favorite player with Vlad Sr.) also was never the power threat and run producer that Naylor is. Naylor is really impressive but a matchup nightmare for the O’s.

Look at inherited runners and their scoring % also. The numbers are a little better than how he’s pitched in September but they’re still heavily propped by his ridiculous first six weeks or so. Since Felix went down Cano has thrown 9 innings of 6.00 ERA ball and he’s been bailed out A LOT by some amazing defense. In this span: K/9 is down to 2 BB/9 up to 3 HR/9 up to 1 Again I’m not necessarily criticizing Cano. My rant is that for some reason they’re beholden to Cano in the ninth even when the matchups do not favor it. Without Felix every one of the other guys should be used to matchup, Cano included. BTW he has six blown saves, which is .. uhhh A LOT for a guy who was the primary setup guy for 8/10 of the season.

I trust him in the right situation. Last night was not a favorable matchup for YC and that is my gripe. The only guy on the roster that should have a set role in the pen is Felix. Cano just doesn’t have the ‘miss ability’ to pencil him into the ninth going into every game. I realize that Felix Bautistas don’t grow on trees. I’m not even necessarily complaining about Cano. With the current roster construction I just don’t like the set roles in the pen, which includes saving Cano for the ninth.

This. When Felix went down I suggested that they throw Danny in some save opportunities, Cionel, Hall and Wells also when the matchups warrant it but not to fixate on Cano. I like Cano as the 7th/8th inning guy but he doesn’t look like he has the chops for closing. His stuff doesn’t get you enough strikeouts and you dang sure don’t want to have to throw him in the tenth or later because the ghost runner will almost guaranteed bag third on him. It’s frustrating to watch all of the three-batter appearances because of the matching up and to see them not use Cano when he is most appropriately matched. That’s the job of a manager - to put his guys into the best positions to succeed. Cano facing crazy good contact lefties is not putting him in the best position to succeed.

Dude I’ve tried to type a response four times now. The f’ing ghost links are too much tonight. I hate the set roles in the pen. If they’re going to matchup then they should be matching up with Cano just like they are with everyone else. Lefties have gotten to him A LOT this year. I realize that DLH threw yesterday but he was throwing well tonight. Let him start the ninth tonight against the lefties. If they need to bring in Cano, then bring him in after DLH faces the lefties. DLH is going to be unavailable the rest of the series anyway. He only threw 17 pitches. He’s 25 and he was extended as much as three innings. Let him start the ninth.

Were you watching the game? The hit by Ramirez was an infield hit. In the Naylor AB he got squeezed a bit on two pitches in a count that full before Naylor singled to center. He was 98 on the 4seamer to Ramirez who reached on the IF single off of a good change. He went 2-0 on Naylor with two sliders that at least the first one could have been called a strike. He came back in the count to 2-2 before going 3-2 on a slider just off the plate. Naylor fouled off a curve and then took another slider to center for the single. I’m not suggesting Hall was lights out there but the two batters to start the ninth were lefties. Let him start the ninth. He’s unavailable tomorrow no matter what.

I get that but this is playoff baseball. He threw 17 pitches last night over 1 1/3 and threw another 19 tonight in 2/3 tonight. Like they said on the broadcast - get the first out in the ninth. With two lefties starting the ninth, Cano was not the guy to pitch to them. Hall was in the game. He looked good and was effective. Got to give him the ball there for the L on L to start the ninth.

I don’t understand the obsession with the matchups but I understand less the seemingly refusal to abandon set roles in the pen. The only guy who should have a set role was Bautista. Leave Hall in to start the ninth. If after the lefties you need to go to Cano for the righties then you can go to him.

Like every one of your posts.

Good lord i know the pen is taxed but JFC Cano is not a closer.

I don't think that's remotely accurate for Big Mike. He was very good until the over usage a few weeks back on that West Coast trip and he hasn't been quite the same since. If you're suggesting that his recent performance leaves something to be desired, I can agree with that but I don't think that he is totally unreliable. And yes I would certainly prefer Big Mike over Jorge Lopez right now.

This effectively ends Baumann's season with the big club, right? With only nine games remaining, he cannot be recalled without an injury and if they are swapping Big Mike for TWells (instead of the obvious move - to me - of cutting bait on the Jorge Lopez rerun) I'd have to think that they don't think Big Mike is playoff roster worthy. I am not surprised to see TWells recalled but that it's for Baumann is surprising to me.

I genuinely feel that Jackson Holliday is a .300 hitter .360 OBP player right now. The O's won't do it because of the veterans on the roster but I'd pencil in Holliday at the top of the lineup, at 2B in G1 of the playoffs. Bye Frazier. Bye Mateo. Thank you for your contributions but Jackson Holliday's bat is more potential than either of them (outside of Mateo winning a game with his legs). Unless something absolutely out of left field emerges (like putting Holliday in left field) I don't see a world where he is not a roster contributor in 24. If he's hitting .330 in Norfolk and OPSing .900 and the O's are still running out retreads like Frazier and Mateo (who, by the way is still my second favorite current Orioles) then there is something else at play and they are NOT prioritizing the best 13 hitters for the 26 man.

This is accurate. Either of these two would require a 40-man move. If they're going to do something wild like that it would be for Holliday (and even then I think that's extreeeeemely unlikely).

That's probably accurate but it's not about the O's seeing more of him. It's about getting reps in games.

I'm a big fan of Joey Ortiz but I do not think that he (and especially not Norby) factor as much into how they handle Holliday as I would like. In regards to the ROY/extra pick scenario - Position Player accolades are almost exclusively based on offensive production. I love me some Joey Ortiz (not in that way but not there's anything wrong with that) but I don't think that anyone in baseball is torn over who is going to be the more premier offensive player between Ortiz and Holliday. Holliday is never going to be the fielder that Joey is already but with Gunnar's emergence at SS this year, both of Holliday and Ortiz at SS (defensively) are less of a priority. Going forward it's going to be a matter of who are the best 13 players. In my opinion, Holliday is already one of their best 13 with the bat. The defensive stuff becomes far less of a concern with him at 2B and if the kid goes .310/.380/.450 for an .830 OPS and steals 25 - 30 bases with 12 - 15 homers.. he's going to pace the league for ROY. 2B puts him in the lineup (picture an eventual top of the order in Holliday, Adley, Gunnar... that's absurdly good) from Day 1 in 2024 and it improves their team. Essentially they would be replacing Frazier with Holliday. It doesn't make ANY sense for them to delay a promotion to Baltimore for Holliday unless they hold him down in Norfolk until September and I promise you, his hitting will make that impossible for them to do. He is the best bat-to-ball guy in their system, which includes the big club. I think he could potentially win ROY even if they wait a month to promote him but they won't do that because they learned their lesson with Adley last year. If a guy is going to challenge (or be a favorite to win ROY) you aren't going to hold him down because of the pick. And they're not going to hold Holliday down for Ortiz or Norby... as much as I like Ortiz as a prospect and player, it's just not going to happen.

I know it was a stretch that they would send Holliday but I am still somewhat surprised that he isn't going out there to play 2B.

I don’t think anyone in the minors is ahead of him. The only guy that I would consider in front of Holliday is Gunnar. Of course that changes somewhat if/when they move one of them, which I believe they will do and it will be Holliday who they move. There is no better option and as we saw with Gunnar at the start of this year, if they consider Holliday one of the best 13 position players, he will be on the roster.

This bullpen is in shambles.

Always the eternal voice of reason. The force is strong in you, @Frobby

I haven’t seen Joey in the lineup for a couple weeks now. He’s had an oblique issue. I think his absence is partly why they promoted Holliday.

Listen, you will not find a bigger fanboy of Joey Ortiz than me. I’m on record plenty pleading with the O’s to allow him to be the Jack Wilson type of player that I see him being but if the org feels that Gunnar can play shortstop full-time like he’s played this year (and I’ll remind us that he’s split his games almost in half between SS and 3B this year) then I am just not sure where Joey fits. If they aren’t going to give Joey a shot to play in 24 then they should move him. Gunnar blossoming into the defender that he is now at SS seems to have surprised a lot of people. Perhaps they didn’t account for just how good Gunnar could become but I find that hard to believe. I think it’s more likely that they just over-hedged on MI prospects and more of them hit than they expected Norby is a different consideration altogether. He isn’t in the same universe as Gunnar or Holliday and well below Joey on the totem pole. They should have moved Norby last year. I don’t see him ever making an impact for the O’s. He’s been passed by Holliday already.

I’ll go on record now and state that I think he’s going to break camp with the O’s. I’ll be surprised if he doesn’t go to the AFL (have they announced who in the org will play in the AFL yet?) but I think he will work at 2B over the winter and ends up being the opening day 2B. His ability to hit is quite literally too good to keep him down for any reason unless they are just disgusted by his defense, which I don’t think will be the case…at 2B. I think we go into 24 with Holliday as the presumed favorite to win ROY.

I will reiterate that I am hopeful that his defense improves to a level that the big club will have to choose between Gunnar and Holliday at short. It’s only a good thing to have two guys who can play there, especially when both of them are so elite offensively. I just don’t see him as a major league SS for the reasons that I have listed. I think if they slot him at 2B it drastically improves the club and improves the likelihood that he breaks camp in 24 with the team. The kid is elite-elite with the stick. He’s going to lead the league in hitting several times during his career. There’s nothing wrong with him ending up at 2B, if for no other reason than because Gunnar has become elite there defensively. I think some of our folks in this community just can’t separate the prospect ranking from the actual skill set. That’s fine. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I encourage folks to take an opportunity to actually watch him play rather than to just blindly subscribe to writers online who base their articles on offensive numbers. As an O’s fan, there’s absolutely nothing to not be excited about with Holliday. Ultimately the organization’s opinion is the only one that matters. If he improves and pushes Gunnar to third then that means that the Orioles have an all-world defensive player at shortstop to go with the all-world offensive skills. I would take that 100 times out of 100. I just don’t see that happening.

I was super critical of his lack of command. I thought he was destined for a DFA but man, he’s been nails the last month+. When Felix went down I posted that I thought both Danny and Cionel could get save opportunities. I’m glad the O’s know better than me and held onto Cionel through his struggles.