banks703

Cease's 200k's and the terrible team defense that he pitches in front of suggest otherwise.

I'm neither in love with nor hate Cease. I don't love the years of control but the truth is, the guy is still pretty elite at 27. We're getting the warm and fuzzies over Kyle Bradish (and rightfully so) but Cease ranks literally one place below KB on FanGraphs pitching rankings by WAR: https://www.fangraphs.com/leaders/major-league?pos=all&stats=pit&type=8 If they can get a guy like Cease for a combo of their prospects not named Basallo or Holliday, I think they should try. There's a surplus of talent in Norfolk that has to give at some point. Joey Ortiz's age 25 season was wasted in AAA. Norby is 23 and has no path to the big club if all of Gunnar, Holliday, Ortiz, Westburg, etc. remain with the organization. The White Sox are in shambles so perhaps a volume deal of good to great prospects (something like Cowser, Norby/Ortiz, McDermott, Wagner) gets it done? I would avoid Snell like the plague. I think he's got some good years left in him but he's going to want $40 mil a year and that's a deal that will become an albatross. I don't hate the idea of Nola. I mentioned him in another thread. He's still relatively young (30) and could anchor a staff with Means as the elder statesmen. I find it ridiculous that I can say this, now in my late 30's, but I think the O's should try to get younger still because the culture of the team seems to be leaning more toward the fun, loose, intense on the field kids who get $#it done. I love what Kyle Gibson has done for the O's this year eating innings. It's been great but what hasn't been great is when he's thrown those absolute stinkers and it's crippled the pen for days, sometimes a week or longer. Nola has thrown 5 more innings than Gibson and has 1.5 more WAR. Burnes would also be a guy to target if they could have a window to discuss a new deal with him, even if it's only to extend him another year so that they have him for two years. He was publicly critical of how the Brewers handled his arb case and I believe said he wanted to be traded. With only one year left on his deal, the O's could push Milwaukee's farm system to the top with some of their lower (higher ranked) prospects. I'd be all for trading farm system ranks with them to get Burnes. And there are plenty of other options that we know will be available with more to reveal themselves during the off-season. The O's prospect capital will remove any difficulty in finding that elite arm to add to the rotation. Now, whether they let go of the prospects that will be required to complete a deal for that elite arm, that's a different conversation altogether.

I disagree with this. We all love what they’ve done this year but I wouldn’t go into 24 banking on them to repeat their performances. Not yet at least. Give us another year of this level of production and we can probably feel good that it is who they are as pitchers. They’ve both been very good but I think it would be foolish to not seek another elite starter, if for no other reason than they have all of these prospects who are ready to contribute but nowhere to play them. Can never have too much pitching and the O’s have been extremely healthy in the rotation this year. I don’t think we can expect that same luck every year.

I’m not sure how he isn’t considered a true ace with his performance this year and I think he still has another level. I’ve posted many times that Bradish’s growth (and TWells before the arm fatigue) has been the single most important development for the big club this year. I maintain that management needs to prioritize an elite starter this off-season. A rotation with Bradish, GrayRod, Means, Kremer and (insert elite starter) has to be considered one of the best in baseball. I posted this a while back in another thread; if this version of GrayRod (since his recall) is the pitcher that he will be going forward, the O’s have four guys in their rotation who have pitched to sub 4 ERAs either in their careers (Means), this year (GrayRod if we count only the second half and Bradish) or last year (Kremer who has flirted with sub 4 ERA for a lot of the season). That could mean going into the playoffs and going into next year that they have four pitchers who can pitch to sub 4 ERAs. No other team in baseball has that rotation talent. Add another elite arm and the O’s could have a legitimate argument for the best rotation in baseball…anchored by Kyle Bradish. I really hope that the Yankees don’t hold out Cole from his last start to preserve the ERA title. That’s a very Yankee thing to do. I don’t expect Gray to start another game with the Twins having locked up their division but I suppose we’ll see. It would be awesome for Kyle if he were to win the ERA title. Maybe he throws 8 more shutout innings against the Sawx and gets it anyway.

My brain would only let me remember the tail-end of Glaus's career but damn, there were some years where he was an absolute monster: .781 OPS in 1999 1.008 OPS in 2000 .898 OPS in 2001 .805 OPS in 2002 .807 OPS in 2003 .930 OPS in 2004 .885 OPS in 2005 .868 OPS in 2006 .839 OPS in 2007 .856 OPS in 2008 That's a 10 year average OPS of .867 with is 30 homers per year, 26 doubles per year, 86 RBI per year and 82 runs scored per year. Yeah, I'll take that from Mayo all day.

I'm not suggesting this simply because Mayo is coming through the system as a power hitting 3B and that because he and Troy Glaus are both 6'5 but he looks an AWFUL lot like Troy Glaus at the plate. https://www.mlb.com/orioles/video/coby-mayo-s-solo-home-run-x0116 https://www.milb.com/norfolk/video/coby-mayo-s-19th-home-run?t=t568-default-vtp

Is he? I thought I saw his service time at 5 years. Ehhhhh I probably still do not do it. It'd be hard to part with all of the cost/control of Holliday and Cowser for two years of Cease even with Robert. Robert is truly elite when healthy but I can't trust his health. He left their game last night with an apparent injury.

I don't hate Cease but I probably would not actually do that deal simply because of Robert's health concerns but also because of only getting back one year of Cease. Comparatively, it's probably a pretty equal trade if all players stay healthy. Cease is having a bit of a down year but FanGraphs has him at 3.5 WAR this year and he just recorded his 200th strikeout this year on Saturday. Again, I don't think I actually do that trade but I would part with both Holliday and Cowser if the return was a legit # 1 pitcher.

Jackson Holliday and Colton Cowser to the White Sox for Luis Robert and Dylan Cease I can't wait for the board to meltdown at this proposal.

I don't get a sense that that man has a lot of athletic skill so to and at in that context probably mean the same thing but for HR reasons we'll phrase it as "to"

How about every member from the 83 team all throwing to John Angelos simultaneously?

This is the only answer.

LOL ok

K.. so what is BS about what I wrote then? lol

Sure. All the time.

That may have been reported but I don’t believe that it was ever confirmed that the O’s seriously pursued Cease (or that they asked for Holliday in return). The White Sox are a dumpster fire so it wouldn’t surprise me though. Cease is their best asset. It would do more for their organization to trade him for multiple high level prospects (and possibly get major league level talent back) than to ask for one guy back in a trade for Cease. That’s why I think the O’s match up with them for a potential off-season move. They didn’t have to move Cease in-season so they could ask for the world but now that they have new leadership in Chris Getz, I expect them to make more sound moves.

He already posted that he was being facetious.

Oh. LOL

All fair but I still think they would improve by upgrading his spot. He’s eaten the innings they paid him to eat. He’s won 15 games with a chance at 16. They could do worse than his 39th ranked 4.86 ERA but I think they could also do a lot better. Plus he’ll be 36. Can they count on him for another 175ish innings? That’s his calling card.

At some point early in the season I posted that if he could throw 175 innings of 5ish (or maybe my ask was sub 5h ERA) that he would be worth the $10 million. He’s definitely been worth it as far as the innings eating goes. I still think that they need to upgrade his rotation spot in the off-season.

If they can’t upgrade Gibson’s spot in the rotation, I’d be open to bringing him back on a one-year deal to eat innings. I just really hope that they make an effort to upgrade that rotation slot.

I am not taking anything away from what they’ve done this year and I certainly believe that they are going to continue to perform at these levels but I don’t want the O’s going into the off-season thinking that they don’t need pitching. They do. Everyone needs pitching. With the four guys who are penciled into the staff next year it doesn’t really make sense (with the decreased payroll) to prioritize a number 4 (at best) starter. I love the staff but I’m not silly to think that they don’t need to upgrade it and if they’re going to do so, they should be looking for a legit dude. No offense to Kyle Gibson.

I don’t think that is necessarily true. There is plenty of talent both at the ML level and in prospects that they could use to go after someone and there are going to be TOR starters on the market like Snell and Kershaw (though not likely to leave LA). Plus other guys who fit the bill like Nola or Duffy would be upgrades to the current staff. Bradish and GrayRod have had nice seasons and I am super excited by their development but it’s only one year (and in GrayRod’s case it’s half a year) of top half of a rotation production. Let’s see them repeat these performances before we declare anything like it’d take Jackson Holliday to acquire someone better. A bonafide Ace doesn’t mean that it has to be a Strider or an Alcantara. Guys like Cease, Burns or E-Rod would be major upgrades from Gibson, though I hope they don’t kick the tires on E-Rod. I look at John Means as a guy who could potentially anchor their staff next year. I want them shooting for the stars.

This would be ideal but I doubt that happens. Maybe. They do some funky stuff sometimes but they’re on the verge of winning 100 games so maybe I should just STFU and let them do whatever they’re going to do.

I do fear that a little bit though I don’t think that either of Bradish, GrayRod, Gibson or even Kremer suffered from the layoff during the All-Star Break. The way that GrayRod, Bradish and Means (Hell even Gibson) are throwing right now I almost don’t want them to have a break but I can’t believe that they don’t need one. The post-season is not for the faint hearted.