kidrock
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Posts posted by kidrock
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9 minutes ago, Philip said:
So the REAL result of this is:
1) additional roster spot. Yay
2) Now more whining about how useless Davis is. Yay
3)………..that’s it.
so yeah…
Exactly, and maybe a couple bucks saved due to the time value of money.
This could have happened 2 years ago.
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4 minutes ago, eddie83 said:
I’m pretty sure Britt worded it poorly. That said he is off 40 man and no more spring training conversation about it.
Time to appreciate his career instead of wishing it was over.
Agree - my point was that it just doesn't save much money.
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1 minute ago, NCRaven said:
I’ve decided that I don’t care whether ownership saves $6-7 million. It’s pennies on the dollar. Distraction gone, win. One less player taking any time at all from Mountcastle, who I believe is becoming a beast. Open spot on the forty man this off season.
Davis gets to move on from a no win situation. I get to remember good Chris Davis. All wins from where I sit.
This team is on a budget and they are investing their budgeted dollars into international scouting and facilities along with improved analytics. While 5m may not seem like much, it buys a lot of scouts, facility improvements and analytics people/machines.
Not trying to be combative, but 6m matters to this club.
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3 minutes ago, Frobby said:
That’s one interpretation of what’s been reported, but it’s still not completely clear to me that he’s giving up the $6 mm in deferred comp that he would have earned next year.
That's my interpretation, but agree, it is not clear.
At the end of the day, this doesn't really save all that much money. The O's get some time value of money benefits and maybe they save the 6m of next years deferred, but that's it.
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I think this saves the O's the 6m deferral of next years salary. The 17m in cash he would receive next year is split over 3 years.
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Bob Nightengale said he will still be paid, just deferred over 3 years.
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I have been pretty patient as I think he has some really good OBP skills. But I am at the point where I just don’t see his skills translating enough. He just doesn’t have enough of a hit tool, defense tool or power tool to pair with his OBP. I really liked him and was able to look past the occasional defensive gaff.
I’m not an expert at all, so I ask the hangout faithful: am I missing something? I really want to see something in him, but OBP isn’t enough, you need to have some other skills. He swings and misses routinely.
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16 minutes ago, EddeeEddee said:
It's not about how many stars your teams has. It's about quality players overall, youth, depth and balance. That's how teams like the Rays and A's compete nearly every year. Easier said than done -- but it is doable if your owners hire the right people and support them -- and give them something of a budget to work with. I doubt any team is more than 5 years away from competing if the team has the right people running it. Of course you need some luck too. But if you believe you're more than 4-5 years away from competing then you probably always will be -- until you get the right ownership and front office combo to get the club on the right path.
I think I worded it poorly. My point was that it takes more than just Grayson and Adley to build a championship team. Not only do we need those guys to pan out as stars, we need a ton of depth and mid-level talent. But even acquiring that many stars is difficult.
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23 minutes ago, DrungoHazewood said:
Then you have teams like the 2014 Orioles who were Manny (who only played 82 games) and a bunch of pretty good players and they won 96 games. It's not about how many stars you collect.
Perhaps I worded poorly. I meant that the support cast and depth is going to take time to build out. Maybe Grayson and Adley become stars, but there is a lot of mid range talent that this team needs to develop/acquire.
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5 minutes ago, Sports Guy said:
You don’t need to suck for 4+ years to develop a talent pipeline.
True, but it is incredibly difficult and requires a ton of injury luck.
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18 hours ago, vab said:
The Orioles are definitely taking the long road here. That 2012 team was built on a few prospects who developed but mostly trades, free agents and a couple of shrewd pick-ups here and there. What the club is doing now is trying to develop a talent pipeline through the farm system. That takes much longer but it will make them a perennial or nearly-perennial contender if they can pull it off (see Tampa, Oakland). The 2012 method was good for five years but look where it left us.
Exactly. Elias wants a talent pipeline. Not some quick fix compete for 4 years window.
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19 hours ago, Pickles said:
Well isn't that kind of the Op's point?
We don't have a core or depth.
Bringing up some top prospects- if they're even successful- might give us a core, but that won't make us a good team.
That's exactly my point. You see these teams with 3-5 stars who still sit at 500. I think it is going to take 4-5 to truly assemble enough stars and supporting cast.
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2 hours ago, Matt Bennett said:
It’s easy to forget that eventually there will be impact external additions. You don’t have to develop a 26 man roster from your minor league system alone. We just aren’t at that phase yet. Signing a SP or OF to a 4 year lucrative deal prior to say the 2020 season would be fruitless. But those types of deals will come. Our FA signings have been restricted to a cheap 1 year deal for a position hole that is in desperate need of a warm body. I’ve always thought of the end of 2022 (Chris Davis’ contract) as a new era in Baltimore baseball, whether that’s intentional or unintentional. Basically I think that means a new phase of the rebuild will begin. IMO Elias is doing everything right despite a few hiccups like jumping the gun on dumping Richard Belier, leaving Zach Pop unprotected, and the Mike Yaz swap.
I'm not knocking Elias. I know some are frustrated with him, but I am happy with his progress. He's not perfect, but I like his plan/vision.
Just don't think this team is less than 4-5 years at a minimum away from getting 90-100 wins
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14 hours ago, fitzi22 said:
It’s really all about how you want to construct your team. Elias to this point has wanted to add talent via draft, trade for cheap/controllable pieces, and the fledgling international market. Free agency is mostly ignored unless we can get a deal on a possibly tradeable player. It is difficult to build a competitive team just with the draft and trades. You need to have a successful international system to acquire nearly half of your players. Good news is the O’s have made strides in this area. Bad news is it will take another 4-5 years for these players to be major contributors, so yes I agree with the opening post and believe we are this far away. Which logically brings you to the place of trading away every player that you believe will not be a major contributor by then to help aquire additional talent.
You worded your post better than my original post. I just don't see this team competing for a real championship for a while. 500? Sure, maybe by 2023. But when guys like Adley, Grayson, Gunner, DL, etc come up, we cant expect them to produce year 1 at a high level. They could, but it is unlikely that they all compete at a high level right away. Because of that, I think Means and Mullins should be traded if the right offer comes across. I would not trade them just for the sake of trading and don't think that Means is at peak value right now. But I wouldn't be holding on to players in hopes that we compete by 2023.
I think its a given that Mancini won't be here by the time we are relevant, but I'm not sure what value he has in the market.
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1 hour ago, Oriole1940 said:
Contending is somewhat dependent as to what the other teams do. One year a certain W/L record would get a team to the playoffs, and another year it would not, if making the playoffs is the definition of Contending. I would think that aiming for .500 would be the absolute highest goal to reasonably set for 2022. Anything above that would be off the chart, good. But we do not know for a fact if a .500 record would put the team in the playoffs. Now if we define contending as a reasonable chance to make the playoffs 1/2 way through the season, then the bar is not as high. Anyway, as has been said, if the team is improving at a good rate, then that bar is not so high either, and should be very achievable, again depending on what the definition of a good rate is. I have always looked at a poor team as one that is crawling, a .500 team as one that is walking, and a team above .500 as a team that is running. Hope the Orioles run into the playoffs by 2023.
Fair points. I'm still struggling to see a 90 win team in 2-3 years from now, let along a 95+ win team that can take it all.
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2 hours ago, Pickles said:
The Baltimore Orioles in 2018 were probably in the worst position in modern history in terms of being prepared to compete.
Yes, absolutely terrible.
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After reading through an article on who the Cubs may potentially trade away, I began to think that we are further away in the rebuild than I originally thought. They have many decent to plus players who many think they are going to trade. If they can't compete with a core of Bryant, Rizzo, Baez, Kimbrel, Hendricks, Davies, Wisdom, it makes me feel like the O's are just so far away.
Maybe I am being foolish or dramatic, but look at St Louis, Wash DC, Atlanta, Philly, NYM. All have much better rosters, yet they are all around 500. The Braves weren't doing that great before Acuna got hurt from what I remember.
Am I off base here?
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3 hours ago, ScGO's said:
I wonder how trustworthy a lot of the national rankings were, especially since baseball was difficult to scout, let alone play, during Covid. Maybe these are guys the O's scouts and data guys were able to observe more, or gain more info on than others. They all seem really interesting. The extra Covid eligibility explains some of the older players, but perhaps they used that extra year to figure some things out and can advance quickly.
I also have a theory that the O's analytics department has identified the start of a trend towards a return of Tony Gwynn, Paul Molitor, George Brett type hitters. Athletic, high average hitters that strike out less than they walk. Hitters that can challenge the shift, put balls into play, make things happen. Get on base, stay on base. This will mingle well with the high OBP and power guys, which alone, result in too many K's. I wonder if this draft is trying to get ahead of the curve on this potential change
I also wonder if they are trying to save a little money in this draft because they will most likely have the #1 pick in next year's draft. Our spending will be much more next year if we decide to take the best overall player like we did in 2019.
Agreed. Really seemed to focus on guys who could make contact. There need to be some players who can beat the shift and put the ball in play. Hoping he is ahead of the new trend.
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Another great AB by Mountcastle. I’m impressed.
Im not asking for a hall of fame player, I just want to see a player show improvement. He is currently showing much better maturity. That makes me happy.
Same with Mullins. I didn’t need him to be Kenny Lofton, but just showing improvement this year is huge. Not too many other players who have done that this year.
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15 hours ago, Gofannon said:
On May 18th, the Orioles designated Rio Ruiz for assignment. Since that time, they've lost 13 in a row by a combined score of 90-46.
Have the past two weeks been the curse of Rio Ruiz? Because for most of the past 25 months, I've thought the curse of Rio Ruiz was, well, Rio Ruiz.
You definitely made me laugh!
Can someone please explain to me what the deal is with Ruiz. Career minor league OPS of 746 doesn’t exactly scream big leagues to me.
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5 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Back on topic: Scott comes in last night in a tie game, runner on 2B and two out. Weak-hitting Billy Hamilton is at the plate. Scott quickly gets ahead 0-2, the second strike coming on a fastball 3-4 inches off the outside corner that produces a very weak swing. So what does Scott do on 0-2? Throws him a fastball that couldn’t be more center cut if he placed it on a tee. And Hamilton hits a sharp grounder up the middle for an RBI single.
OK, Scott’s not the first guy to miss his spot on an 0-2 pitch and give up a hit, but this was really maddening. Hamilton is such a lame hitter. No way Scott needed to throw him a strike there, and definitely not that strike.
I’m not the most knowledgeable fan, but Scott doesn’t seem to have a clue where the ball is going.
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5 hours ago, Legend_Of_Joey said:
A few years ago, I did some threads where I made a case for a player to be called up from AAA to Baltimore and I think it had a 100% success rate.
This will not be one of those threads.
This won't be a bash thread either (by me, atleast. You all can have fun with the pitchforks.)
Originally a shortstop in High School, Sisco switched to catcher with the hopes that it would be a higher skill need. It was. The question was on his defense, as he was basically learning the position through his climb through the minors where other catchers have years of experience to go on. It was his bat that would be the big skill factor.
Sisco raked all through the minors in Low A, High A, and AA, getting awards like a video game.
.371 in the GCL in his draft year.
.340 in his first full season at Delmarva.
.308 in Frederick and .257 in Bowie, getting called up for about 20 games.
.320 in his first full Bowie season.
Since then, .267, .242 and .292 in 3 Norfolk seasons, playing 97, 38 and 45 games respectively.
In his 3rd season at Norfolk (2019), he had his most home runs (10), showing some power that some people said wasn't quite there, as he was going the other way with most of them. At that time, the ball was also changed in AAA and home runs totals rose sharply.
His strike out total rose during his time through the minors, but that tends to happen when you face pitchers that are more consistent around the plate. His walk total hit a high of 61 in 2016 and then went way down, to 32, 16 and 20 the following seasons. He went from 88 k's in 2016 to 99, 36 and 44 the next three seasons.
Tony had mentioned his bat speed seemed slow and he was cheating fastball and falling for the curve, or going the other way on a fastball even when cheating for it.
During his time in the MLB (besides his 10 games in 2017), he has had averages of .181, .210, .214, and .145 (at the time of this post.) Strike outs have gone 66, 61, 44, and 18 (at post.) Walks are 13, 22, 17, and 6. His home run surge in 2019 (8) is the same amount he has hit total in his other MLB seasons (including debut season.)
In a more extreme breakdown, this season he has seen 238 pitches, made contact with 44 and barrelled 1.
1 ball was barrelled.
His bat has seemed to regress sharply after 2019. He has had very minor spurts here and there (his Babe Ruth-esque 2019 when recalled during the summer for a few weeks), but now...Not as much.
What is it? Was he just able to get by in the minors until AAA? Have pitchers figured him out? Extended slump?
This is someone who was a Top 5 prospect and seems to have completely lost what made him that level.
1 barreled ball. At some point you have to move on from this guy. I’m not quite sure I see one redeeming quality. At least with a guy like Stewart, he can still get on base and flash a rare home run.
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Wow, poor call on what should have been ball 4 on McKenna
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I would love to ask another question to the experts on here again: given the following factors, what is your realistic ideal build/makeup for the O’s:
1. Play in the AL East - seemingly much smaller/hitter friendly than other divisions on the whole
2. Play in Camden Yards - seemingly brutal for pitchers
3. Have a payroll with an upper bound of the 2015-2017 teams
To be more specific, the 2012-2015 had very solid defense up the middle/third along with pretty good power for the respective positions in Aj, Wieters and Hardy. They had plus power from Davis, Trumbo. They seamed to really lack OBP across the team. Their starting pitching seemed average as best and their bullpen was elite.
Again, my question for you all: what qualities/traits do you think the O’s need. Is it ground ball pitchers, is it defense up the middle? Is OBP more important power or is power more import as they play in such small stadiums? Obviously the ideal but not realistic scenario is to have an all star at each position. I’m looking for what traits or characteristics need to be of focus.
I’m about ready to give up on DJ Stewart
in Orioles Talk
Posted
I am happy and would love for him to heat up. I actually started this thread because I have always had a soft spot for him, but couldn't even justify him anymore to my biased self.