Mavericksouth

Okay but you incorrectly stated I said six prospects here. That's inaccurate. I believe I also clarified that I meant 10 guys in our system, including big league pitchers are better right now in that thread. That includes Sandy, Pablo, etc. I like the guys in our starting rotation more, that's my opinion. I'm not trying to troll here. With this "our team is better than yours" nonsense that I feel you're trying to bait me into. Your rebuild has gone much better than ours did. The only thing we have done better consistently is developed starting pitching...that's it. We have no bats, no Bullpen, no competent GM or ownership. Look, I get it. I take it you're a massive DL Hall fan. That's cool. Hence you "taking exception" to my preference of pitching in our organization. I'm obviously not as high on Hall as you are. That's fine too. It's a difference of opinion. I hope he is the ace that you hope he will be for the orioles. I have a lot of respect for what Elias has built. His eye for young hitters is impeccable. I'll come back here and say I got Hall wrong if he turns into Sandy and is a Cy Young winner in 2-5 years.He might be the next big thing and then again, he might not be. Best of luck to the guy and the orioles' future with him.

Forgive me, but i just went and checked this thread. I don't know where I said six prospects. I do believe we have Eury Perez and Max Meyer who are higher rated as prospects depending on your preferred scouting expert. Even then, if i got some quality and controllable young bats, I'd trade them too if I could. I'll say that my personal preference is that I like some of our pitching prospects more, and I wouldn't move Alcantara for any arm the Orioles may have. I like G. Rodriguez a lot, but he doesn't solve the Marlins' problems. So even a trade surrounding him for Alcantara wouldn't make any sense from our perspective. But again, like my initial post said, the marlins do not need pitching so trying to trade arms to us is somewhat of a pointless discussion. Hall, Voth, Bradish, etc. have no value to us really. No disrespect to those guys, but we have an unbalanced farm with a bunch of arms and no one who can hit the ball. I'm also not disputing that your farm system is far superior to ours. You all have tremendous young bats and our offensive depth doesn't exist, thanks to Jeter and co.

You seem determined to provoke a fight with me? My question is why? I'm here to talk ball with baseball fans. If you want to get into a urinating contest, please redirect that to someone who wishes to engage in that kind of behavior. As for the baseball discussion, if you like Hall, great! Keep him. And if he turns into a stud, awesome for the Orioles. I'll be very happy for you guys. But again, Hall nor any other pitcher that the Orioles could offer solves the Marlins problems which is we don't have offense. We already have an abundance of arms that the organization likes.

I love Edward Cabrera personally. I think he is what Sandy was circa 2019. He is gonna be a big deal in the next few years. That said, I'd be willing to deal him for a fair package. He would never haul what Sandy can get, but he is comparable to what Pablo Lopez could net. I'd say Edward is probably our third best pitcher at the moment. He has a higher ceiling than Pablo, imo.

So am I. That's why I'd do that deal. LOL.

Almost. Personally, id take #2 because I think Cowser can play CF while I don't believe Stowers can and that is our biggest difficiency at the moment. That proposal would be close but you would need one more piece in either deal. Cowser added to #1 or Westburg or Holliday added to #2. Not a bad offer though

Exactly. Great post. That's where the term "untradeable" comes from. Everyone has a price. However, the marlins have no desire at all to move Sandy unless a team is willing to pay full market value for him. Most teams, outside of the Yankees (who are always in win now mode it seems), are unwilling to do it, so GMs don't waste their time in fruitless discussions.

No on Hall. The marlins don't need any arms only bats. Cowser yes, Mayo yes, not that high on Kjerstad. He's a no. Westburg yes. I'm intrigued by Dylan Beavers too..

Thanks. Most of the board is pretty cool. A few are getting a little bit spicy, but I get it. I'm telling a different perspective that doesn't necessarily go in lock step with the Orioles' fans' vision. That said, I think it is important to get contrasting points of view which is why I am here. I know in Marlins land we can propose this trade and that trade but that is all preaching to the choir. I want to see what truly is realistic from the opposite side.

Okay. Take off Mullins. I won't ask about Adley, Gunnar, or Grayson. Give Cowser, Westburg, Mayo, and Ortiz for the NL Cy Young Winner. would that be a deal?

Gotcha.

I'm just telling you a different perspective that you seem uncomfortable with hearing. That's all. No malice.

Why the name calling? I think I've been respectful to everyone here. No one is being arrogant. Just being realistic. Sandy is one of the best pitchers in baseball and we're not going to give him up for peanuts is all which is why I said he was untouchable. Not sure what I have said to given offense other than the Marlins shouldn't be taken advantage of on any deal for our best player. Sandy, like any player can be had, for the right price. Not sure what is arrogant about this.

Respectfully, not exactly sure what your point is here. Sandy won more than 8 games as well this season. You say we lost 90+ games this season...I know that already. I've suffered through it. I'm not debating that our team is crap. Again, I already know that. I'm saying to give up the only thing of significant value on the team and one of the best pitchers in baseball and this year's NL Cy Young winner is going to cost quite a bit. Sandy by himself is the difference between staying at home for the playoffs and popping champagne in October. But that doesn't come for free. You gotta pay to play. If you all are serious about Sandy, it's going to cost a lot.

You got it. No player is truly untouchable. Anyone can be had for the right price. I gave Orioles fans the price. If you all are truly serious, that's about what it will cost for Sandy. If anything, Orioles don't fully grasp how dominant he is. He is reliable, eats a ton of innings, an unhitable sinker, he is the only bright light of an abysmal and poorly run franchise. It will cost more than what Orioles fans are prepared to part with, which is why I say he is untouchable. The four guys proposed don't equal one Sandy Alcantara. Which is why Orioles fans proposed it, lol.

Nope.

We're not looking to move him, LOL. That's my whole point. I consider Sandy untouchable simply because for what he is worth, it is unlikely anyone is willing to pay it. I'm just reading how Alcantara is somehow attainable if you give up a pitching prospect who may or may not be a starter who has control issues, another starter with a 5+ ERA, Mullins who slightly regressed from 2021 (I still like him though), and Westburg (whom I like, but his defense concerns me, and he has never taken a big league at bat). Again, any stud pitcher let alone a Cy Young winning one in his prime is going to cost ALOT more than that. If you're not willing to really spend those prospects to get to the next level then my recommendation is roll the dice on free agency and seek lower tiered pitchers in trades. As a Marlins fan, every pitcher is open for discussion not named Sandy. But you're probably not going to fleece any team for a quality arm. It's going to cost.

We don't need pitching at all. No interest in Bradish or Hall. We have better pitching prospects than both of those guys. Mullins, Westburg, Cowser, and Ortiz or Mayo. That gets you to the pay window if you want a 27 year old Cy Young winner with a team friendly contract for the next 4-5 years. Not being a jerk but it's important to be realistic with your fan base. Fans tend to put on what I like to call "Homer shades" and propose one way trades that would never be accepted. Sandy is considered untouchable by us. That said, if you're going to change our mind, know that to get quality you're going to have to give quality. Lots of it.

What would that prospect package for Alcantara look like? *Marlins fan here*

Pablo Lopez's final 2022 stats: 32 Starts 180 IP 10-10 W/L Record 3.75 ERA 174 SO 1.17 WHIP

Not at all. I have great respect for the farm system that Elias has built up. Tremendous young hitters that you guys have drafted and developed. That said, Alcantara is probably going to win the Cy Young this year, and he is 26 with a team friendly contract for the next five years. There is absolutely no need to trade him UNLESS we get an absolute haul. The haul would have to include Henderson or Adley. I highly doubt anyone who is an Os fan wants to do that, and anyone who is Marlins fan is not entertaining moving Alcantara for anything less. So, no need to even discuss the possibility of it, imo. Anyone else in the marlins organization...have at it. I'm open to talking about realistic trades between our two organizations.

I've already said I'd trade Pablo for players not named Mullins or Cowser. Hays and Westburg would be sufficient enough for me.

To follow up, you guys are closer to the playoffs than we are. We're a 90-loss team. It makes more sense for us to trade the few valuable assets we have and start over as opposed to you guys who are currently four games out of a wild card spot in the middle of September.

We have an abundance of pitching. We cannot hit the ball like...at all. That's what the article that started this thread is talking about. Taking our surplus of arms and trading for established bats or bats that are close to the bigs with potential (AAA). We can replace Pablo and while I would rather not trade Pablo, we have no choice because as I said we can't hit the ball, lol. We have multiple holes to fill offensively. We're going to lose 90 games again, so we need to try to get what we can in trades. Free agency has been unkind to us.

My friend, if you're asking about Alcantara, you might as well put Adley or Gunnar on the table too. LOL