Jim'sKid26

I thought JP would be more interested in some Cakes!

I guess my point is that the difference between 91 and 93 at the MLB level is probably negligible. I would put significant emphasis on pitch sequencing, command and control, and the ability to land his secondary pitches. If I am recalling his repertoire correctly his most important pitch is his change up. And it was his ability to effectively throw a breaking pitch, I think it was a Slider, that really ushered in his pre-injury success. Now you can make the case that 2 miles per hours of fastball velocity may make the change up an even more effective pitch. I would not argue with you about that aspect, however I am not certain it explains much about his previous success.

Is it possible you are ascribing too much significance to his FB velocity? I suspect there were many things about the way Means pitching immediately prior to his injury that led to his success. His FB velocity likely contributed but was unlikely the dominant factor.

The FB Trout hit was 98 mph but middle-middle. He missed his spot by about a foot. You cannot do that and expect to win at the MLB level. Grayson is young and shows it at times. I think he's uber talented but still rather inexperienced. He's learning how to be a SP at the Big League level. He took his lumps last night. Let's hope it was a learning experience. Not a Jedi yet. Still a very talented padawan.

@RZNJ and @Can_of_corn I appreciate the dialog. I think Jeter could have been a solid defender had he not been asked to play SS. So the quote above, (forgive me for picking a nit), is not entirely accurate. I don't think Jeter was "bad at defense." He was just not +10 at SS. There are a couple of plays that Jeter made that standout to me as showing outstanding defensive skill and situational awareness as well as athleticism. His issue is that he was not gifted with either the arm or the quickness to excel at SS. That coupled with the fact that A-Rod was a much better defensive SS than Jeter when A-Rod joined the MFYs makes me wonder is Jeter might have been a superb 2B or CF but was too stubborn to make the move.

At SS, I agree. I wonder if he had been primarily played at 2B or CF if you would feel the same way. Guess we'll never know.

IMHO defensive prowess at premium positions generally benefits your pitchers to a more significant degree than offensive prowess. So C, CF, SS, 2B are positions that I would be OK with one or two players who profile +10 D/-10 O. I think the corners, (LF, RF, 3B and 1B) are where you can have one or two +10 O/-10 D types. 3B tends to be a corner spot where a stellar defender can change the course of a game or series, however. I also believe that defensive skill is more highly correlated with superb athleticism; whereas offensive skills are less highly correlated with athleticism. In other words, it's rare to see a great defender who is not a great athlete; but there are many excellent hitters who are not very athletic. I think the O's like players who can defend at a very high level. I think they like exceptional athletes who are versatile defensively. They have been fortunate that many of their prospects are superb on both sides of the ball.

Would you prefer "long and hot?"

You ok with no runs in 6.2?

Did you see this? He makes your point extremely well.

Gunnar. Highest reward to risk investment. Scott Boras notwithstanding.

I believe that it is not a specific pitch or pitch-shape that is the culprit. I think it is the desire to throw harder and to spin the ball more. Check out this discussion:

For those of you following at home: Pedantic = "someone who annoys others by correcting small errors, caring too much about minor details, or emphasizing their own expertise especially in some narrow or boring subject matter." Buzzkill = "a person or thing that spoils the mood or the pleasure of others."

I voted over. Bat to ball skills are elite. He will hit. He has defensive value that will show as he gets more comfortable at 2B. His speed and base running also add value. He's at least a 3 fWAR player.

Keep putting his name in the lineup. He's gonna hit.