Tony-OH

I don't like Odor will be taking PAs away from Urias with a major league minimum contract. Trust me, if Odor is starting over Urias come opening day unless Urias is injured, I will not be happy. But I don't see that happening. Right now the organization as it stands today at December 1st is thin in middle infield talent. While Urias is a better fit at 2B, he can play SS so if Mateo flames out or is not recovered, Urias can slide over.

I think I'll need to disagree with you again. I think the Angelos brothers discussed Elias' plan with him before he was hired and they knew he was planning on gutting the major league team to get high draft picks all along. I don't think Elias was trying to win at all so far at the major league level and his moves showed that. Every move, including signing stop gaps were made with the chance to get something in return for a winning team when the organization was ready to win in his opinion. While people can disagree with his plan, I truly believe he's following his plan to a T. Losing sucks, and I don't think Elias likes to lose anymore than any of us, but he's sticking to his plan of building from within and when he's got a farm system ready to start delivering talent on a yearly basis, and he knows who is in house talent is at the major league level, he then can start to focus on outside talent to fill the holes, particularly in the rotation. I think we've gotten to the point of the plan where some of the in house talent will show who are part of the future and where the holes are while the rest of the organization gets deeper with J2 singings and another draft.

Who said it means it's not for sale? He ask is there any reason reason to believe the team is spending millions to compete. I gave him an example. I have no strong opinion on whether the team will ultimately be sold, but I don't think Elias is not spending because of it. I think he's not majorly spending on major league talent but it's not the right time in HIS opinion for HIS rebuild.

Excellent first post! I agree. Coming off a 110 loss season is not the time to start trading away prospects for players who don't make us competitive in 2024 and beyond. The organization must draft, sign and develop young talent to be consistently competitive. That will be how they acquire that high priced talent that hopefully makes them perennial contenders with a chance to for a World Championship.

Why would team that is just trying to cut corners for sale build a $10+ million training facility in the Dominican? The Orioles were a 110 loss team last year? What do you expect them to by this offseason to make them sudden contenders? I have no idea whether Elias will have the funds to acquire talent when it's time, but this is not the time unless a unique talent was available that would help us at a position of need in 2-3 years from now and further. He says he will, but I will agree with you that until he does so, it's still up in the air. Where I disagree with you is that Elias has shown he will spend in the draft and in the international market now that his scouting has caught up there. I expect them to use their full allotment this J2 signing season. I'm not taking up for anyone, but calling it like I see it. I think this rebuild has been done in the fashion that was take time. If his scouting and development allows for the farm system to keep spitting out good major league players, this team will have a chance to be competitive year in and year out. I will say if the Orioles are another 110 loss team this year then I will start questioning the methods because at this point, he has to start seeing some returns on the players his staff and scouts have indentified as being able to be productive major league players. My expectation is the team will be better (perhaps 72-90) in 2022, mediocre in in 2023 (81-81) and competitive in 2024 and beyond.

But I know you understand that getting mad at the Orioles for not making move for a player that may not be available or who may have a price tag (in player returned) none of us would agree to is silly. We don't know what is being done behind the scenes and unless the team leaks it, no one is getting information in the Baltimore press. Here's what I get out of this. The Orioles signed a guy who is depth at 2B and maybe 3B, for the league minimum, when they don't have any other viable candidates ready outside of Urias and Matteo up the middle, and Gutierrez at 3B. Since he signed for so little, this doesn't preclude them from making any other deals once they start making deals again when a CBA is agreed to. I thought this was going to be an expensive deal so I was like WTF. Now that it's a major league minimum deal, I'm like, eh (shoulder shrug).

Ok, I've caught up on this entire thread and have a few thoughts. Before I start, I understand the frustrations with not winning nor does it look like the Orioles are going to get better with this move, but there are a lot of things at play. One, the Orioles are not going from a 110 loss team to a contender in one one offseason regardless of improvements by current players. 2023 is not about competing per se, but I do believe this will be the first year where getting better is a goal. Let's focus on Odor though. When this first was announced I scratched my head. But why? I went to Savant to try and solve what the Orioles might see. I did see a guy who hit the ball harder last year (3.1 MPH better on EV) with an above average barrel percentage and EV. But still, his expected numbers were all well below average. So why? I kept looking and then I found it. Though there is no deal signed or even close, Mafred did mention the potential of eliminating shifts in 2022. Lo and behind, Odar is a much better hitters when there are no shits. Last year he had a .405wOBA with no shifts vs .283 with shifts. This matches his career numbers. Basically this was guy, like Davis who was hurt by shifts. Now will this make him rebound to his glory days, doubtful, but he could be improved if this happens with the new CBA. The other thing that makes me shrug now is that his deal is for the major league minimum. He could be cut in spring training and no one would bat an eye. As for being on the 40-man, who cares? Bannon, Nevin and Mattson are still on there as well and can be removed at any time. If Matteo doesn't recover, Maybe Urias has to play more SS. With no one ready from the farm to play 2B, SS or 3B, Odor now gives the team some depth at 2B and perhaps 3B. Who knows, maybe he'll be tried in the outfield and become Ryan Flaherty? I don't see this move as being awful now since it's for the major league minimum and he can be cut before the season is out if he doesn't fit.

Who do you think they should have signed for the left side of the infield? The Orioles have two top prospects that are 3B prospects in Mayo and Henderson, one legitimate SS prospect in Westburg (maybe Ortiz), and three 2B prospects in Norby, Vavra and Westburg if we have a better option at SS. You keep acting like one, the Orioles are ready to sign or trade for impact talent, and two, that talent is on the market and available, this offseason.

First thing you did wrong, check Twitterverse for opinion.

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Well statcast had him as well above average defensively at 2B. His bat though has been terrible for that last two years. The way he's declined, I wonder if they have his actual birth certificate because he's was an old 27 last year. Unless he was injured, his running speed has fallen off a cliff the last two years.

Not sure I understand this at all. So I guess Urias goes back to utility for the 2022 version of Maikol Franco? This seems like a deal you make last offseason. Call me confused.

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I think this how Elias thinks he can stay depth for the upper portion of the system. Since he has first claim, he grabs the guy, then a few days late tries to get him through hoping no one will claim him then he can assign him to Norfolk outright. As @interlopersaid, other teams do this as well but the orioles do it probably more because they've been at the top of the waiver wire for what seems to be forever.

You won't get an argument from me there. Same thing with Nevin. But for some reason Elias and company are infatuated with poor right-handed minor league third basemen/UTL guys who can't play SS.

I know utility guys with speed are all the rage now, but you would think they would want them to at least hit their weight. Reminds when I played OOTP with the 1977s Oakland A's 9I would see if I could rebuild them back into a contender). I would always keep Rodney Scott on my roster years after year because he could play a lot of positions and was fast, so I used him as a pinch runner often late in games and then could play him in multiple positions. I was before my time!

I just don't get what teams see in this guy. He's a 40 level utility guy.

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I don't think it's the only reason, but I do think it was part of it. Harvey is the kind of arm you claim and hope he can stay healthy when you are in the Orioles situation. The fact that they DFA'd him tells me there's more to the story then just frustrated with his inability to stay healthy. But, it's spilled milk now. time to move forward.

I don't have a problem with a weighted lottery type system as long as it's only for non playoff teams. No way should a playoff team have a chance for a top 10 pick in the draft the following year unless they trade for it, which I'm all for adding.

Which could be true, but can you look at Kriske's stuff and Harvey's stuff and tell me why anyone would keep Kriske over Harvey, even with the injury history of Harvey? I don't have a huge issue with DFaing Harvey, but I would have done it during a time when it was the best chance to sneak him through waivers. Personally, i think they got made at him for saying what he said about getting hurt in rehab. Now grant it, the guy could break his own back stepping on a crack, but I wouldn't mind having him in the organization in the off chance he stays healthy. Really, neither of these guys will be pitching regularly for a contending team in the major leaguers.

It was actually 7.71 ERA over 7 games after they started to enforce it on 21 June but he had a 3.31 FIP and it was really two bad outings that hurt him so I'm not sure that destroyed his trading value. I think he just got the yips at the end of the season and couldn't throw strikes. I don't think a 29-year old reliever is worth tendering when the team has Akin ready to take on his role. Plus, I think they can get him through waivers resign him to a split major league contract for probably $1 million if he's in the majors and save the roster spot.