Tony-OH

It seems to me that Elias has three goals this offseason. Cut payroll (hopefully to be reinvested into the infrastructure of the organization), lose as many games as possible at the big league level next year (For better draft pick), and maximize any return for current players that he doesn't think will be part of a winning future here. Even the relatively cheap resigning of Richards Bleier gives them a fairly low cost player who might bring back a player if a need arises from a contender if he can show he's fully healthy and pitching like he did pre-surgery. If his thoughts are solely on the "strategic vision" of the future, then all of his moves makes sense, even the Villar move. The only problem I have with the Villar move under this scenario is could he have maximized Villar's value even more if Villar played well and a need arose from a contender during spring training or at the trading deadline. If that had happened, the chances are Elias could have netted a much better return than what he got now, though it appeared he wasn't willing to take that financial risk on to see if that scenario played out.

Don't troll. This brings nothing to the board. You've made this point so making a whole other post just to say this again is literally the definition of trolling which is not allowed on our site.

This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ Please do not let other thread discussions seep into other ones. Besides, I think it's very clear what everyone thinks about the Villar trade, no one is going to change their minds at this point. Once the Villar trade happened, it made sense to trade Bundy and the return brought in a quantity of arms that have some potential, particularly with Peek if all the reports are right. Givens is probably next and Mancini won't be far behind though "Far behind could be next year offseason."

Riiiiiight, because everyone loves hitting the 495 beltway or maneuvering through Montgomery county between 5 and 7 during the week.

Dan was an awful communicator, no doubt. I'm 100% happy Elias is now running the show, but I'm not going to just bash everything about Duquette because he made some good moves and kept this team competitive for most of his tenor here. He worked under very difficult circumstances with Buck and Brady having direct access to Peter Angelos and with no clear cut "chain of command." Only Machado was a strong trading chip and the return he got was pretty decent. Either way, Elias is in charge now and he's trading from a different place for the most part. Elias doesn't have a great trading chip though Bundy probably was his best outside of Mancini, who may or may not be on the block. I don't think Givens will bring a ton back.

Only if they present the same FV does the player's advancement in the minors determine his higher ranking.

Sounds like Elias built the deal and presented it to the Angels and they accepted vs having the Angles give him a list and he choose from there. I like that they are targeting certain players. Time will tell if their system is working and these guys pan out.

Yet seven of the players he got in those trades are in our current Top 30 and only Britton and O'day, who were resigned, remain with the teams we traded them for. Without those trades, the Orioles farm system is not as strong.

Just to be clear here, I said it "looks like" Elias went for quantity, not that I have any insights into his thinking for his deal.

Considering I'm typically speed reading and typing during the day at work when I have a chance to check it, be lucky I get anything right. If these are my worst mistakes, then I'm doing ok.

Ended my career. Never could overcome the broken injury.

Damn, taking arrows from all over!

I think you are reading too much into his comments. I don't think anyone is arguing that Elias doesn't care about adding as much talent as he can, just that the value of his trade chips may not be that high and that he may just take what he can get if he perceives it as the best value.

Of course he's going to try and get the best he can for his players, but he already has a precedence of dumping Villar for basically nothing, so there is some validity to saying he might take a lesser return to drop salary. I don't think it attacks Elias' intelligence or the job he'd doing, but rather pointing out the fact that if a player's has zero projected value over his salary, he's not going to get much in return. Givens is coming off his worse season and is will start to cost north of $3 million next year. Unless Elias thinks he can get more return for him at the trading deadline or in spring training, then it wouldn't not surprise me if ends up similar to the Villar trade. At first glance, I like the Bundy return so Elias is not giving everyone away.

He certainly might. I haven't really looked at the market for him. All I was saying is if they can get him on the cheap for whatever reason they should, but I agree, most likely someone will give him more.

Good question and I guess it depends on who thinks he has what left in the tank. He was released and non-tendered this year. Somebody will probably give him something more than the Orioles should, but if they could get him as a NRI or on a cheap, Nate Karns like deal, they should do it and move in the bullpen.

HAha, I'll fix that!

But this is where we have to trust that everything the Orioles are doing fits their strategic objectives. I've always thought Gausman could be a great late inning reliever with his fastball, change combination. If we could get him under a million, why not? Might be able to flip him if he pitches well.

By the way, if Givens is on this roster at the start of 2020 I'll be shocked.

If he's cheap enough, Gausman would be a good guy to go get this offseason and then see what he looks like in a relief role.

I'm not sure how much trade value either player has, but I think it's pretty clear almost no one is off the table, to include Mancini if the offer is right.

I watched an outing in which he struck out 6 and three innings and came away less than impressed. He has some deception and he'll break off a decent slider here and there, but I didn't see a guy with an outpitch for big league hitters. I will caveat this with I only watched two of his outings, but the lack of velocity is a concern at the big league level in a relief role.

They do defend well, no doubt. Once they heated up, the talent really shown through tonight. That dunk from Wiggens after he missed his three was amazing.

It's not all about the velocity. All of his pitches lack horizontal movement. Saying that, i think he will be better in Los Angeles because the park is bigger, but he's not going to suddenly become a TOR. Can he be effective and maybe a solid 4th starter, sure.

Unless that park is Yellowstone, Bundy is not going to be a TOR or #2 starter on any team. He has to have his A command to get away with a below average straight fastball.