Tony-OH

Done

You don't know if you have the whole story, but yet you are willing to throw away a human beings ability to work because he lacks human decency because of a perceived mistake? How high is that horse you are up on? No one is glorifying a domestic abuser, nor is anyone ignoring the serious issue that domestic battery is in this world. But at the say time, he was never arrested or convicted of anything and it appears that he is trying to right his wrongs through counseling and his actions.

Good point. If Hyde is ok with him then we all should be. If not, then move on.

There seems to be some stigma that says if you have an incident in your life that it should define your character forever. i for one don't know 100% what happened with Russell and his wife, but he apparently cheated on her and a woman scorned have been known to exaggerate things. Even if she didn't, at the end of the day, this is what Epstein said about him, “He’s fully and enthusiastically complied with everything (MLB) has put in front of him as far as therapy and counseling going forward. Beyond that, he’s reached out on his own to engage in a therapist, someone he’s stayed in contact with three to four times a week, and that will continue long after the mandated therapy is done.” Now domestic abuse is abhorrent, and there is no reason to hit on your spouse whether they be male or female, but it sounds like the guy has done everything to improve himself. I would not be against the Orioles acquiring Russell and I doubt Elias would either f the price is right and he can fill a hole for this team.

I'll wait until next spring and let Jim Palmer tell us what he actually did this offseason!

Nobody, including Davis is trying to fix Davis anymore. Davis basically said so himself when he said he had no intention of going to any hitting school this off season. There is no magic coach that can fix what is broken beyond repair.

Well, Elias said everything is all about their "strategic objectives, which prioritize the future right now." How does keeping Chris Davis address that? We all get he's a sunk cost, but what strategic objective includes keeping around the biggest albatross contract in baseball. The one that hopes he gets hurt and they can recoup some money through insurance? The one that hopes Davis will tire of being a laughing stock and retire? You're right, releasing Villar saves them money while keeping Davis does not, but keeping Davis also doesn't focus on strategic objectives, which prioritize the future right now!

Gotta imagine Addison Russell will be a target for the Orioles off this list.

Well consering that Villar brought back what he did, I would hope so, but Bundy is a 5th starter right now who will be paid around $5.7 million. How much return will that be worth if he continues to pitch like he has? I doubt they are getting much more.

We'll all take something over nothing, but let's not dust off the HoF mantle for Elias for this move. By indicating the Orioles were most likely not going to tender Villar, any value he did have plummeted. Obviously Villar did not carry a ton of value for whatever reason, but in the end, this was nothing more than a financial decision and we have no way of knowing whether that savings is being re-invested into the team.

No doubt there were some headscratcher moves being made. If I thought I was contender and needed a second baseman, Villar would be on my radar when the team is trying to give him away. SD seemed like the perfect fit. Weirdness.

If the money is being banked for future use on a winning team or reinvested into the team to give it an advantage, then I can't argue with that assessment. If it's to just line the owners pockets then they are discounting the paying customers. Say what you want about Villar, he was a fun player to watch last year and helped make a bad team tolerable to watch.

Yeah, he was seriously reaching there. There is no reason to act like McCoy or Bannon played into this decision at all. This was purely a move to save $3-$5 million from the operating budget next year. Whether that money goes back into the organization or not remains to be seen, but it's a bad precedence in my mind to dump a player like this for basically a low-ceiling lottery ticket.

True, but then why tender Bundy who is in a very similar situation? If you going to go all cold and heartless, do you really think Bundy s going to bring much back in trade?

What do you call a team with a low payroll who cuts a guy because he might cost 3-5 more million a year? What do you call a team that insists on keeping their $20 million plus albatross on the roster but gives away it's 28-year old middle infielder coming off a 4-win season? I guess you call that part of the process. I believe the process was on target with or without Villar so why not allow your fans to have a little enjoyment while you rebuild? I believe this is all about the bottom line of making money for your owner while you rebuild, perhaps so they'll pay later. The question is will that work? Again, it's not the end of the world that Villar was given away, but let's call it what it is and that's a bottom line move that only makes the owners more money.

With a bunch of $50K guys like last year? Hopefully we will see some bump in the type of talent they sign next year now that they've been down there a year.

Don't know much about the guy they got in return besides his numbers, but a 14th round 22-year senior draftee who will pitch at 23 next year and has never pitched above the NY Penn League is the definition of an org guy. At the end of the day, the Orioles gave him away because they are unwilling to pay him. As I've stated before, this does nothing to help or hurt the Orioles chances of becoming a contender in the future, but it tells us that they don't care about the fans at all right now, and assume they will just come back when/if they begin to win again. Perhaps they are right because winning seems to solves most fan problems outside of Tampa. I guess this is where baseball is going. The cold, soulless bottom line moves that are all about the bottom line for the owners. What do the fans get? They see Villar traded for basically a low-ceiling, org guy and get to watch Chris Davis hit .150 next year as he makes $20 plus million dollars. While I did not think the Orioles were going to contend next year, I did think they had a chance top be fun to watch with Villar, Mancini, Santander, Hays and eventually Mountcastle in the lineup. It's just a sad day when I see the team I've loved and follow since I was 4 years old, give away their best player while keeping Chris Davis. I understand a rebuild, and I understand all the things Elias has been doing behind the scenes with rebuilding this organization. None of that changes really, but the Orioles have now told their fans to never get attached to any player. If they get slightly expensive, they will be dealt away for nothing if they don't think the team will contend within their window. Will this change when and if they contend? Perhaps. Who really knows? All we can go off of is what has occurred and the Orioles just released a 4-win 28-year old because of the potential for him to make what, 3-5 million more next year? Where does that money go? The team already has a low payroll despite the ridiculous Davis and Cobb contracts, but I guess that's not enough. The Orioles are staring at their 3rd straight 100+ loss season. Obviously if the Orioles are consistent contenders down the road, no one will care about this move, and perhaps these moves are only happening because of the current situation, but this also could be the beginning of an organization that will now only make moves for the bottom line. Let's remember, the sons are basically new owners. We have no idea their interest in making money vs winning. I just find this all sad. I'm not mad anymore, just sad that this is the way the game is now.

Wonder what the cutoff for salary is for the new Orioles way? I'm just surprised they didn't cut him and save the $350K. Clearly Bleier will never be here when the Orioles will be good. Now 900K is not the $7-10 million Villar would get in arbitration, but it does beg the question of the cut off point? I can't imagine they tender Bundy now.

Wieters was paid $15.8 million to put up 1.1 rWAR. In 100 games the year before, Joseph put up 1.7 rWAR for $515,000. It was a waste of resources to give Weiters that money, resources that could have been used elsewhere. If you wanna claim victory for Wieters putting up a paltry 1.1 rWAR while making that kind of money, feel free, but Joseph showed up until 2018 that when he played regularly he was able to produce both offensively and defensively. He should have been the starter in 2016 and the Orioles could have used that other $15 million for something else to help the team!

I meant coming into the year. I didn't make it very clear. Obviously Caleb had a horrid year as a backup.

I meant coming into the year Caleb was clearly better. Caleb just could not produce without regular at bats. When he played regularly he produced. Signing Wieters to the $17 million QO was a gamble that didn't pay off.

And I understand your take, but what makes you think the money they are saving by just cutting or trading veterans is going to go back into those developments? Those things happened last year while they were paying Davis, Cobb, Trumbo around $50 million to stink or not play. Basically I'm all about them not going out and trying to sign Free agents, but you just don't cut the guys you already have for nothing. That's just embarrassing and sends an awful message.

I'd argue that we might have made it more easily if Buck would have played the clearly better that year Joseph over Wieters more.

But Wieters was no producing anymore and his QO was an absurd $17 million. Duquette didn't think he would take that offer and become a free agent but Wieters was smart enough to take it. Villar is coming off a 4-win season at 28-years of age. Big difference. I think there are teams willing to pay Villar $7-10 million a year but they are not going to give up talent and then pay him that when they know the Orioles are just going to release him and then they can just sign him. I feel like the Orioles showed their cards a little too early and now are trying a last ditch effort to get teams to pony up now that teams can just select him off waivers and give up nothing.

But I think you are missing out on the part about how this looks to fans and others in the industry. What team just releases or non-tenders it's best player who is 28-years old an coming off a 4-win season? While I agree that this probably does not affect the timeline for the Orioles to be a contending team in the future, it does show that this organization will be cold and heartless when it comes to their bottom line. How will you be able to trust an organization that will do this? What makes you think Mancini won't be next? Let's fast forward and say the team is not competitive and suddenly Rutchsman is expensive and close to fee agency? Just release him, right? If Villar is just non-tendered or released or basically given away, I believe the team has just set an ugly precedence. Seriously, who would go pay money to watch the team next year after what they did? They basically just told their fans that they will release any player on the roster if they get too expensive, regardless of their production and enjoyment the fans get out of watching them. I completely understand what the team is in the middle of, but just outright releasing good players over money that won't make a difference to anything but ownership's bottom line is not a a way to keep or develop fans.