Malike

I don't think they want a quick turnaround. They are looking for 20 year olds all with the upside of Machado or Holliday for Cease so when they do contend the guys will be mid 20's. They want nothing to do with the dinosaurs like Westburg and Kjerstad. 25 is ancient.

They have it backward there. They NEED to trade Cease, we do not NEED to trade for Cease. Now, they don't understand that, they think we're toast without him, but yeah, they have the collective IQ of a box of rocks there it seems.

Now they are running with the ridiculous proposal of Santander and Mateo for Luzardo like the entire board thinks that's a real thing. Pretty embarrassing stuff.

I ask myself that same question every time you make a post.

@Chicago White Sox is trolling hard on the Sox forums. It's laughable. He's again pointing to projections and acting like we should be scared. Bautista was a monster last year for us and I bet not a single one of those rocket scientists over there realize he blew 8 saves. We're going to be okay. They keep insisting we're panicking here, this team is brimming with talent, I understand they have no clue what that looks like in Chicago, but they think we're a last-place team without Cease. I'm embarrassed for them reading some of the stupid comments over there. They have no idea what young pitchers are going to do, but hey, if ZIPS projections are canon law, then yeah we're in big trouble. Legitimate bunch of clowns over there for the most part. Cease is an Ace....yeah in what world? We are in an infinitely better position than they are. They keep talking about the AL East. This isn't 2019, we aren't playing each team 19 times with a balanced schedule. There is more stupidity than I can handle over there, I don't know how you guys keep posting there lol.

Still, no excuse for an MLB owner to insist that if they up the payroll from 60M to 90M the team is going to go broke. There is no reason this team can't easily sustain a 130M dollar payroll other than the owner being greedy as hell. I'm pretty sure they aren't locking up any of the young guys, there is a lot of talent on this team that will get expensive in arb years but they'll likely trade them at that point anyway. Both teams have terrible owners.

Fair points and I'm not the GM, and I didn't sleep at a Holiday Inn last night. I'm just saying personally, I'd not want to trade any of those three. I have no idea what Elias would do to get a younger pitcher with top-of-the-rotation stuff and 3+ years of control or if they are even being made available. Cease would slot in nicely, but our season isn't over if we don't get him. That's my opinion, at least.

The real question is what is he in 2024? In 2021 12K/9, 2022 11K/9, 2023 10K/9. The downward trend is a little disconcerting, plus, he doesn't throw many innings. He makes his starts, but he's not an innings eater, he isn't pitch-efficient at all.

You're welcome here, no hostility at all, well from me, anyway. Getz needs to hit on this trade, I agree. I've said he should be trading Robert as well, they could essentially cut the rebuild down to a couple of years with the returns from Cease and Robert. I know from browsing your forums that outside of Holliday and Mayo, most people there think our prospects aren't very good, despite having the best farm in baseball by more than a little bit. Most of us here also know that prospects bust, and we have some that are going to as well, so holding onto everyone thinking they will all become stars is a fool's errand. I also don't think our team is nearly as bad as almost everyone on your site does and some here actually, if we don't get Cease. He's not going to be the difference maker for us by himself and we're likely to get close to his value from in-house options. Our pitchers are young and have been improving each year and I expect that to continue. I'm not averse to trading our top prospects, well, I wouldn't want to trade Holliday/Mayo/Basallo, but everyone else I'd move in the right package, I just feel like if we're giving up Cowser/Kjerstad and Westburg, plus, we should be looking at pitchers with more years of control.

I'll go out on a limb and say that there is zero chance Getz is proposing Westburg as the headliner with Beavers and Povich. He's asking for Cowser/Kjerstad + Westburg and likely Povich/McDermott and a 4th piece. If the deal was Westburg/Beavers/Povich, Cease would have been announced as an Oriole already.

That certainly changes the picture some, but I don't know how realistic it is. I'm sure Getz would want some lotto tickets or high upside youngins thrown in.

So at face value "they don't want to part with Westburg" with no other context suggests its a 1:1 deal. I agree, that's awful. If you believe the insiders on the Sox site, they claim it's Cowser/Kjerstad + Westburg. They will want more after that as well. Still awful?

I'd say so because it's not just going to end with those 2 players. They wanted two top prospects, check. Those names are likely listed, then they want a couple more on the bubble, and giving up a Povich/McDermott in addition to whomever else they throw in is too much in my opinion. I'm also not very high on Cease, I hate the way his statcast data is trending and his pitch values tanked. A lot of people here think he's been 2022 Dylan Cease for 4 years and that year is the outlier.

I wouldn't mind Westburg going to CWS but I'm guessing they are asking for either Cowser/Kjerstad + Westburg. That's likely too much for Cease.

What if Westburg is the 2nd piece? It's easy to say it's awful if you only hear 1 name.

They would get a great package for Robert if they decided to trade him. They could rebuild pretty quickly if they didn't want to hold on to what little talent they actually have.

With the new rules tanking doesn't guarantee a great pick. It's the worst time to tank. Oakland lost 112 games and they pick 4th. Rockies 103 and they pick 3rd. Cinci was a WC contender late in the season and over .500 and they pick 2nd.

He (Did I get your pronouns right? We don't have those here, sorry) is from the Sox board, he knows Frazier isn't here and is just trolling. I'm waiting for him(?) to start saying that we've been offering Ortiz as a headliner, they got stuck on that for like 40 pages over there because, smart and stuff, despite everyone saying Ortiz would be a piece, not the headliner. Like I said, dense.

Chicago White Sox man thinks we're having a worse off-season than the Sox are. Could well be true so far, but we could literally do nothing and we're still very likely to go to the playoffs. I don't think they understand how much talent this team has, and while we'd all like to add to it, they act like we're going to win 60 games if we don't give them the ransom for Cease. It's hilarious and sad at the same time. We've been in their position, where incompetence at every level and almost no talent outside of two players on the MLB team is what you have to look forward to, so I get their frustrations, but man, they are pretty dense over there.

I had as much criticism of Cowser's debut as anyone. He looked awful, but I do think he's going to be a solid to above-average player and the SS is way too small. I mean, Henderson looked just as bad to start the season.

If they keep doing what they are doing both in the draft and internationally, which we're really not used to this team being competent at for the past couple of decades, it should help mitigate a full rebuild. Yes, we suffered through horrible seasons, we drafted well and hit on players we had to hit on, but that doesn't mean we'll be in full rebuild mode in the upcoming future if they keep doing what they are doing.

No, apparently. I guess only one team is successful each season by the logic of that poster, which is dumbfounding, but hey, we get a lot of that around here.

Since 2008 Tampa has been played to a .548 winning percentage with 9 playoff appearances despite having basically no payroll. I wonder, what do you consider real success? That sure screams a successful org to me.

That's not an indictment of the team, Florida is a horrible baseball state. Too many transplants and the stadium is awful and really annoying to get to.

Let's be honest. Any stat or site that supports one's argument is the best indicator of performance, lol.