terpoh
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Posts posted by terpoh
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When does the clock start for the 10 days when someone gets sent down to the minors? I just feel like sending Ortiz down when he was looking very comfortable and while Mateo is a black hole in the lineup will hurt for the next ten days. Yes they can have Gunnar play some SS, but it seems like they were trying to limit bouncing him around and establishing him as the everyday 3B and we dont really have other options at SS.
Was yesterday day 1 as the day he was optioned, and today day 2? Or is today day 1 and yesterday day 0?
Looking forward to having Ortiz back up with the big club and Westburg getting a shot, hopefully sooner than later.
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1 hour ago, wildcard said:
I still think Frazier is traded in July. He is on a one year contract. Elias would trade him for a prospect. His recent surge just helps his trade value if he can maintain it. With Urias, Westburg and Ortiz available I don't see Elias holding on to Frazier all season.
I just dont see it. Frazier will never be as valuable as even Jorge Lopez was a year ago because he is a rental. The point isnt will the Orioles drop off if we trade Frazier the point is we wont get anything back of real value.
The scenarios in July are:
1) Orioles are playing well and so is Frazier
2) Orioles are not playing well and Frazier is playing well
3) Orioles are playing well and Frazier is not playing well
4) Orioles are not playing well and Frazier is not playing well
Scenario 1 if the Orioles are contending and Frazier is a big part of that, why in the world would they trade him? Scenario 2 is the most likely to try to move him where we are out of it and he is playing well. Also probably the least likely of scenarios to be true with how we are currently playing. Scenario 3, well I guess a trade in that case could be the move but what will you get for Frazier if hes not playing well and is a rental? Scenario 4- same thing he just doesnt have value at that point if hes not contributing.
In other words- I just dont see a way that Frazier gets traded- either because he is helping us win or because he wont bring anything of value in return.
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13 minutes ago, Frobby said:
Do you mean this year? I’m definitely not ready to say that. But it could happen if the starting pitchers gain consistency. That 2014 team didn’t have any aces, but the starting pitching was well above league average, and really fortunate with health.
Fortunate with pitching health and unfortunately very unfortunate with position player health. Didnt we roll into the playoffs without Wieters, Machado and Chris Davis? Man that Royals series stung with the lack of offense. Pearce was a beast filling in for Davis, but it was hard to try to fill all three of those guys spots in the playoffs. I agree that I am not ready to put this team ahead of 2014. That team was a powerhouse and ran away with the AL East. Pitching was great from the entire rotation.
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24 minutes ago, Alasdaire said:
Cano's outing tonight made me more confident in his long-term viability despite giving up a run. Coming onto the scene and throwing balls that gyrate is nice and all, but there will be times when that's not enough. I perked up after he let two on, since we hadn't seen him in that situation before.
Two hard hits to start the inning. Not sure Cano looked particularly bad so much as Toronto seemed to be selling out for certain pitches. Bichette and Vlad Jr. still to come. Gut check time.
Felt like Cano/Adley made an adjustment as they pounded the zone with all high-90s to Bichette. Ground out. Absolute battle with Vlad Jr. that went 3-2. Confidence enough to try both the fastball and changeup as out pitches to get the eventual K. Who knows what Varsho is thinking by that point. Weakly makes contact to ground out on three pitches.
Really encouraging outing.
Not trying to take away from the point of your post, but Varsho was 102 off the bat on his ground out. It was smoked. Hard to always tell on TV. Was hit harder than both Keirmeier's single and Springers Double.
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LF Hays
C Rutch
1B Mountcastle
RF Santander
3B Urias
2B Frazier
DH McCann
SS Mateo
CF McKennathe Sunday vs a lefty special
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20 hours ago, wildcard said:
I see these posts that the O's need pitching. I don't see it that way.
They have Gibson and Wells doing well. GRod has to be in the rotation and he has great stuff. Bradish will be in the rotation this week for the Nats series.
The fifth starter is between Kremer, Watkins, Irvin and Zimmermann. Hall has a start today in AAA. Means is on track to be in the rotation in July.
I don't see that the O's need to trade for starting pitching.
I would not trade a top 20 prospect for a reliever. Elias finds those guys without giving up much.
There will be trades in July and the prime candidate for me are Frazier, Santander, Gibson, Givens, McCann, O Hearn, and Coulombe. Not that all of them will be traded but Elias will be listening on some of them because of their contract status and depending on how the youngsters are doing.
Pushing from the minors are Westburg, Ortiz, Norby, Cowser and Stowers. Kjerstad may be knocking by August. Handley, Haskin, Lester, Hall, Zimermann, Rom, Krehbiel, Darwinzon Herandez, Vespi and did you see what Denoyer did the other night.
You've made several references to Frazier getting traded like its some forgone conclusion and I just dont see it. And if so, definitely not in some impact move for the club.
If Frazier is traded one of several things would have to be true... He would have to be playing well to get any return and if he was playing well and we were contending why would we trade someone who was contributing? If he was playing well and traded then I would assume we were out of it and selling.
Or the other option is he is not playing well and we want to get those at bats to Westburg/Ortiz/Norby in which case he wont get a return at all.
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Not that this means anything at all- but the Orioles have been betting "underdogs" in every single game this season. All 9. So being 4-4 while not being favored in any game is something, I guess. I would imagine we will be favored in the Oakland series. I have never really followed this before so I have no context if 9 consecutive games like this are common place or not.
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This team looks a lot like the team that crumbled in September and October last year, and not at all like the team that rolled through June, July and August. These three games were very reminiscent to the Jays and Red Sox games end of last year where we couldnt get anyone out. Not sure what is up with the defense. That was solid all year last year. Definitely concerning.
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Was at the game today (2/26 @ Tigers)
The young guys certainly looked the part.
-Vavra had two impressive diving plays at third and was spraying line drives all over the place.
-Norby hits the absolute snot out of the ball. His double was a line drive that short hopped the wall in center, along with another single.
-Stowers had a nice oppo base hit.
-Povich was very impressive. Stuff was electric.
-Holliday worked the count well in both plate appearances and made a nice running double play turn at SS.
-Cowser worked the count like anticipated.
-Westburg had a hit and a walk where he worked the count from 0-2
-Prieto crushed a ball to deep RC which short hopped the wall.
-Kjerstad with another hit (infield hit)
-Mayo just looks like a big leaguer. Beast.
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2 hours ago, wildcard said:
Not sure that Mullins will be in against lefties since he had a 579 OPS vs them and McKenna hit lefties to a 794 OPS last season. Hyde was doing a sort of platoon with them late last season.
Mateo may not be in the lineup everyday if he doesn't hit better than last year and Gunnar hits well and plays SS anywhere close to as good. I see Gunnar splitting time at SS/3B with Urias filling in at 3B when Gunnar is at short.
Yea I dont disagree with you. I was moreso talking about looking at last years lineups- not any 2023 predictions.
Theres gotta be some movement roster wise with Urias/Mateo/Gunnar/Westburg/Frazier essentially for 3 spots and Norby and Ortiz knocking on the door. I dont see any reason to have Urias on the roster and on the bench. He has proved to be valuable enough as a starter. So whether you've got him at 3B and Gunnar at SS, or Gunnar at 3B and Mateo at SS youve got some additional movement (trade) that probably should happen.
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22 hours ago, Frobby said:
Here’s some batting order data from last year:
1st: Mullins 141, Hays 11, McKenna 6, Henderson 2, Mancini 1, Vavra 1
2nd: Mancini 60, Rutschman 58, Hays 13, Mountcastle 13, Santander 13, Urias 4, Mateo 1
3rd: Santander 101, Mountcastle 30, Mancini 19, Hays 6, Henderson 3, Aguilar 1, Rutschman 1, Vavra 1
4th: Mountcastle 63, Hays 39, Santander 31, Mancini 10, Urias 8, Rutschman 7, Stowers 1, Henderson 1, Aguilar 1, Odor 1
5th: Mountcastle 30, Urias 25, Hays 20, Rutschman 19, Henderson 17, Odor 16, Vavra 8, Aguilar 6, Nevin 5, Santander 4, Stowers 4, McKenna 4, Mateo 3, Mancini 1.
6th: Urias 30, Hays 29, Odor 26, Rutschman 21, Nevin 18, Vavra 7, Mountcastle 6, Henderson 5, Mateo 4, McKenna 4, Chirinos 4, Stowers 3, Aguilar 3, Santander 1, Mullins 1
7th: Odor 43, Urias 29, Mateo 20, Nevin 16, Hays 15, McKenna 12, Chirinos 9, Stowers 5, Vavra 4, Owings 3, Mountcastle 2, Bannon 2, Rutschman 1, Aguilar 1
8th: Chirinos 28, Mateo 27, Mateo 25, Urias 13, McKenna 11, Bemboom 11, Nevin 10, Stowers 8, Arrauz 7, Hays 6, Gutierrez 6, Vavra 5, Henderson 2, Mullins 2, Phillips 1
9th: Mateo 89, Chirinos 22, Owings 16, Martin 9, McKenna 6, Nevin 4, Bemboom 4, Phillips 3, Stowers 3, Bannon 2, Gutierrez 2, Arrauz 1, Vavra 1
As you can see, only the 1st (Mullins), 3rd (Santander) and 9th (Mateo spots) were manned by the same player even half the time. Mancini occupied the 2nd spot more than half the time while he was on the team. But overall, there were tons of different combinations, and I expect that will continue to be the case.
I know Adley doesnt reach the threshold for "half the time" but he was clearly entrenched in the 2 hole last season once he was established there so I would add that to Mullins, Santander and Mateo as a constant in their spots in the lineup.
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What if we took on the Yelich contract too? What would it take in that case?
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10 minutes ago, Aristotelian said:
Extending these guys will be just as costly as signing in FA. I would go into any deal with assumption that it would be a rental.
I think you have a good list although it is possible the list could change as unexpected teams fall out of contention.
Any true ace probably costs Holliday but might be able to get a 2nd tier guy for Cowser/Westburg level.
Another guy I like.os Brady Singer but he has enough years of control that KC will want to keep him unless they get a wow offer. Lodollo is even more in that category.
Asking the Reds to trade Lodolo would be like Asking the Orioles to trade Grayson Rodriguez for prospects. Not happening. He is a building block for them.
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2 hours ago, wildcard said:
IMO the outfield is LF - Hays/Frazier, CF Mullins/McKenna, RF/DH Stowers/Santander. Adley and Westburg get some DH time also.
During the season Cowser gets promoted and Santander is traded while he is at his peak value two 2nd half pennant races from free agency.
Because Hays does not hit righties that well there is room for Frazier early in the season. Hays is also injury prone. But Frazier is on a one year contract so he may be traded at the deadline also.
The trades of Santander and Frazier are focused on re-enforcing the farm system just like the trades of Mancini and Lopez were last season.
The system is to trade the guys as they get close to free agency and replace them with graduating rookies.
The Fraziers and Gibsons of the world are stop gap fill ins.
The same thing is happening on the starting staff.
If we were in the race and Santander was at peak value it would be a little head scratching to trade him unless Stowers and Cowser are just raking as well.
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11 hours ago, Frobby said:
Probably, but not during the baseball season. I’m making a trip there myself in early-mid March. I spent a week there last March, too. Drove past the Trop several times and walked around a popular area within walking distance a couple of times.
People need to understand that the population in that area is pretty spread out and getting around isn’t that easy. The Trop is in St. Pete, which only has a population of 260,000. Tampa’s population is 400,000, and the drive from there to St. Pete during rush hour is pretty bad. The entire Tampa Bay Area population is 4.3 mm, which is plenty, but it’s not that easy to get to the Trop. And the ballpark experience, by all accounts, isn’t a good one.
The ballpark is not nice, but the surrounding area, pier and downtown St. Pete are great. Just not a great place for a stadium for all the reasons you listed. Asking people to drive over a bridge 30-40 minutes to watch the "Tampa" team is not appealing, especially when you figure not just downtown Tampa but the Tampa metro area which stretches even further north and east and is even harder to get to St. Pete.
I went to both the July and August series against the Rays. Really enjoyed St. Pete both times.
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17 hours ago, Bemorewins said:
Again Facts…
Pinellas County has had one of the highest crime rates per capita going back to the 70’s.
I’m really not tryin to go back and forth over this though. I just disagree that city of Baltimore is some sort of handicap for the Orioles success. It’s worked out okay for the Ravens.
The Orioles just need to do better.
You have anything to back up those "facts?"
Also you listed those cities and asked if they are "desirable" not if their crime rates are high. I'd venture more people vacation or seek trips to Tampa/St Pete than to Baltimore.
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43 minutes ago, Bemorewins said:
I strongly DISAGREE wholeheartedly with most of what you are asserting. Are you telling me that it is the city of Baltimore's fault that the Orioles won't spend money?
Do you mind me asking if you are an employee of the Orioles? Because otherwise that's not very logical. Are you telling me that Detroit, Cleveland, Pittsburg, Houston, Cincinnati, Phoenix (in the Summer), Toronto (when it's not Summer), Tampa in the Summer, Minnesota, Oakland, St. Louis ... need I go on? Are all these gran desirable places?
I get that some may want to go to LA or NY. But some do not because of the pressure and scrutiny that comes with playing for the Yanks. Here's what almost the vast majority of players and people want from their employers in a capitalist society .... MONEY (more of it than they can get elsewhere)!
If this were true, how do the Ravens attract desirable Free Agents consistently? I will tell you because the ORGANIZATION's reputation AND because they make offers that are competitive to what players believe they are worth.
The city of Baltimore has MANY problems (I was born and grew up there), but I have travelled to most major cities in the US and it really is no different. And by the way the cities of LA, NY, and Chicago ALL have Major problems!
This argument may work on somebody who is less travelled. As for me, not so much.
Tampa and St. Pete are awesome.
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There goes the theory that hes just backup/utility depth.
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41 minutes ago, Pickles said:
Twins?
Signing Correa, albeit to a short term deal, is more exciting than anything we've done outside of the Bedard trade and the Tejada deal.
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1 hour ago, SteveA said:
Not true, Connolly said "2 or 3". So we could be making 3 year offer(s) and Connolly would still be correct.
And Connolly is also the guy who says our most pressing and important question of the offseason is whether to trade Santander.
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Elias says there are multi year offers out there currently for SP. So either "multi year" means 2 to Elias or Connolly is only giving his opinion
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17 hours ago, wildcard said:
I don't know about that.
Watkins had a 4.17 ERA as starter last season. He probably will not make it through waivers.
I don't think Gillaspie or Voth get taken off the roster.
Here is a question. Hays goes down with an injury in ST. Who are your 5 outfielder. Mullins, Santander, Stowers, Vavra and who? I think that is why Cave is on the roster. Especially to play left at Camden. And he has a option to be sent down when Hays is healthy.
Elias is not bringing up Cowser early. Just not in his plan.
RZNJ will fight you on taking Cano off the roster. He thinks Elias traded for him and believes he can be a good reliever. We have had that discussion and I see his point.
Ryan McKenna?
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15 hours ago, RZNJ said:
1. Sign Verlander - 2 - 70M 3 - 90M
2. Re-sign - Jordan Lyles 1- 11M
3. Trade - Bradish, Hall, Mountcastle for Nick Lodolo LHP Reds (Mountcastle can DH/1B with Votto.)
Revamped Rotation
1. Verlander
2. Lodolo
3. Kremer
4. Lyles
5. Rodiguez/Voth/Wells
Lodolo is a stud, not sure the Reds would be willing to trade him. He's DL Hall to us if DL Hall came up as a starter this year and produced 11 k/9, ERA+ of 122 and almost 3 WAR. No chance we would be trading that away. I just dont see the Reds doing it personally because I know we wouldnt do it if the tables were turned.
Its also funny that when Lodolo was shutting down the Orioles earlier this year, even though he was a top 40 prospect, I remember people in the game threads complaining that we were getting shut down by a "no name" pitcher.
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3 hours ago, OriolesMagic83 said:
Yeah, that's it. Not sure Gray Rod is even part of the core yet because he hasn't even pitched in the majors. I'm not suggesting that Elias is looking to trade him unless he is part of a trade for another core player.
What was the core for the 2012-2016 Orioles. I'm going to say it was Wieters and Jones. I guess you could add Markakis. The rest of the players came and went or just had a great season or 2 (Davis). I think that was part of the problem with the 2012-2016 O's, was the core wasn't big enough and there wasn't any elite players in the core. Did anyone regularly include Wieters, Jones and Markakis in the best players in baseball conversation.
You are severly discounting a lot of players from that era.
Jones, Markakis, Machado, Wieters, JJ Hardy, Davis, Britton, Tillman, Miguel Gonzalez were all core players to that special 5 year run.
Chris Davis hit 197 in the 5 seasons from 2012-2016
JJ Hardy won three gold golves during that time.
Zack Britton was a shut down reliever for 3 of those 5 years
Chris Tillman was in our rotation for all 5 of those years and was our defacto "Ace" during that time timeout question
Miguel Gonzalez was in our rotation for 4 of those years and very good for three of them
Markakis was only there 2012-2014 but is absolutely a core oriole
Manny Machado was a three time all star and 2 gold gloves during that time all while being one of the youngest and brightest up and coming stars in the game
is joey ortiz injured
in Minors
Posted
I was going to post something similar this morning. Had not seen him in a box score since being optioned. Very odd.